philp

We did Seatac back in 1992 and I had a great time.

I had a great time at the Orange County show and would go again. Mark, we seem to have the same issue in SLC. They held the 1980 show and lost a lot of personal funds. This was before Board stepped in to cover expenses but getting people to understand the way things work has changed is an uphill battle. Salt Lake City has a lot to offer as in sites to see and has 3 local clubs to support the show. Maybe someday.

Track me down Paul. Saturday will be crazy busy for me but I should have time late afternoon. I can run you out or I can haul it back and send it from SLC (might be a bit cheaper, depends on what you grab).

Paul, my understanding was there will be nothing on site for attendees. The hotel has some arrangements for vendors. But there are several USPS locations within 10 minutes drive of the venue.

OK, I don't judge the Armor category so you may get a different answer from one of their judges but in my mind German heavies start with Panthers, Tigers, Elephants, etc. I would think of Medium as Panzer III and IVs and light would be Panzer I, II, 38t, etc. I don't see anything spelled out in the rules so that is something that probably needs to be addressed. My 2 cents.

Since preregistration has closed you would have to fill out the proxy at the show. basically you need the IPMS# of the person you are entering their stuff for. I do believe a proxy registration is cheaper than an in person registration but will leave it for someone associated with the show to give more particulars.

I am just happy to see 72nd scale items again. A police car would have been neat.

David, As part of the Board I am looking forward to my first selection process at this coming Nats. From what I understand, the rotate around the country isn't in play anymore because we ran into times where no one in those areas submitted a bid. A few clubs I have talked to, while interested, said they don't have the manpower to pull off a Nats. I would love to see SLC host another one, we are a Delta hub, within driving distance for about half of the US (I consider 2 days as driving distance) and have some great attractions nearby (Hill Aerospace Museum, Ft. Douglas Museum, Utah Army National Guard, Utah Air National Guard and the Model Car Museum all within an hours drive.

Also, if Hawaii or Alaska had a show, I would go. I might even have to bring a few of my vignettes (everything 72nd) to pack the tables. Other than the tours of Pearl Harbor, Wheeler Field, etc. I would probably be at the convention site otherwise, snarfing up any vendor deals. Shipping to Utah probably isn't that bad and I would gladly pay for an extra suitcase for the trip back. My buddy, Phil Cater or IPMS/UK once brought 45-60 72nd scale aircraft to Phoenix for the Nats. They were mainly on the SIG tables but still, he built a special box and packed them tight. Even I managed to get 5 to Telford one year.

Just for comparison here is a link to where the chapters are. https://ipmsusa.org/region-map So looks like the northern half of the US hasn't done a show in the last 20 years. I did go to Seattle back in 1992. If we take it Western, Central and Eastern like it used to rotate (I went almost every 3 years when it was out west) the breakdown is: West - 6 Central - 5 East - 8

Don't think the dates are announced until during the current convention. Someone on the San Marcos crew probably has that info but whether they can announce it or not I am not sure the protocol.

Woohoo

Nice stuff Mark. Even though I swore I would never build another Roden kit again I picked up the Desert version of the armored car at Hobby Island in Vegas when I was there for their Grand Opening. Just had to show my support. The Battle needs a nose job to look more like the real thing. There are/were 1 or 2 conversion sets on the market. The Mossie is still a great kit and the only Mk XVIII in kit form (the one with the 6 ldr gun). The He-111 is not a great kit but I think it is still the only one on the market with the dorsal turret to make a H-20 or H-22. The ships are all nice kits.

Just in case you want to know the reason for the change in the rule, it is spelled out in the Rules: "Redefining/Renaming Out-of-the Box (OOB): Manufacturers now offer comprehensive model kits which include what used to be separately purchased after-market detailing accessories . In addition, numerous requests over the years to add after-market parts to a list of ‘allowable exceptions’ have acted to dilute the purpose of out-of-the-box categories which were intended to promote building basic kits. Starting with the 2022 national contest, the OOB categories (and the rules for them) have been renamed to Basic Kit Build (BKB), to better describe the intent for this competition classification – older or more basic kits, absent extra manufactured detailing parts."

Which is why that kit wouldn't qualify as a BKB. You would enter in the regular ship category.

Actually, the way the rule is written, the fact that the kit includes PE excludes it from the BKB category. "Kits with various other materials included (e.g. cast-resin or 3D-resin detailing accessories, etched metal detailing frets, turned-metal detailing parts, and other similar detailing parts) will not be permitted." It doesn't matter whether you use them or not, the fact they are included with the kit is the deciding factor, at least, as the rule is written.

I get what you are saying but I have always been taught to not judge figures unless they are entered in the Figures or Dioramas categories. Not saying that because we always have is the best answer but I think it works. Actually, to be honest, I seldom have had to judge bedrolls either. Most Military vehicles loose out due to basic modeling flaws just like ever other category. Wonky wheels, seamlines on guns, over weathering to cover basic construction flaws (just kidding, seeing if anyone besides you and me is paying attention 😜). Seldom does it get down to how well the add-ons are done. If needed I am more likely to be checking if they are secured to the vehicle or just glued on, etc. That might be the deciding factor if we get down to a couple of really great builds but other than that, not so much. I am kind of like you in that I like a figure or 2 to help set a sense of scale and add some life to the build but most guys who build tanks, planes, cars, ships, Gundams, etc. are just interested in the vehicles themselves and that is what the main categories seem to be designed to cater to. I personally would like to see some consistency around the rule in other categories. I mean, 2 guys on a tank on a scenic base needs to be moved but 100+ little guys wandering around on a ship in a water setting can stay in Ships? If you want to get changes made to the rules, contact the NCC. That is what I did earlier this year with a request to add more Vignette Categories to accommodate some of the stuff that gets moved during the show and that happened. I don't know if they were talking about it before I sent Mark my email or not but they are in place for this year. Looking forward to seeing you at the show and we can definitely chat more about this.

David, Hmm, the difference between a figure and a bedroll is pretty easy. Most people can make a bedroll look ok (even me on occasion) but painting figures to look good is an art unto itself. I can't tell you the number of modelers who refuse to include a figure because they lack that skill. Taking that into consideration, how would you take that into judging criteria. Say you have two tanks, booth done very well with similar errors but one has a decently painted figure. The category is Tanks not Tanks with crews. That is why I support the "ignore the figures" aspect of it. Could a new category for Vehicles with Crews be created? Now there is an idea. I would say there are enough entries each year at Nats that would qualify for that kind of category. But now you have to have judges who can judge vehicles and figures and decide which portion has the best chance. When you compare an OK halftrack with some great figures vs a great tank with some mediocre figures, who gets the nod? Saying that, I wonder what Mark and Dave would think of that idea?

Huh, thought I submitted this last night but must have forgot to hit the button. I can't remember seeing an aircraft with figures being moved into Dioramas at least during the shows I have judged at. Military vehicles get moved all the time including ones with no scenic base and even no base at all but too many figures on the vehicle. Really they have no chance in Dioramas. With solid Vignette categories they at least have a chance, if they have a base. The new rules seem to support that the seaplane should stay in the Aircraft category if that is where you enter it and as Jim has said, that will be the case. "Aircraft and military vehicles may rest on simulated ground or paving, and aircraft that need beaching gear or dollies may be so equipped. Ships may be displayed in water (no dry docks). The base must not be the predominant feature of the entry and must be of a size proportionate to the model. The Contest Chairman and Judges reserve the right to exclude oversize bases. The model may include primary crew figures (see Rule 15, immediately below, for limits for Military Vehicles). The addition of any other figures or equipment outside or not attached to the model (e.g., support equipment, shell splashes, or buildings) will make the model a Vignette or Diorama, which must then be entered in the proper Diorama category." Dave, I am really curious why the rule was implemented in the Military Vehicles categories that caused the limitation in number and placement of figures. In every other contest that I have judged we ignore the figures if the model is entered in a vehicle category (Aircraft, Armor, Auto, Ship and Sci-Fi), same with any bases. If you want the figures judged as part of the entry then the Abrams would have to move to Vignettes. More than likely there was some stink put up by a contestant(s) about an armor entry winning over another because their figures were better or something. But this rule was in place when I started judging at the National level. It would be great if an Armor judge had the inside scoop on what caused the rule.

Here are some of the rules around Vignettes/Dioramas. The addition of any other figures or equipment outside or not attached to the model (e.g., support equipment, shell splashes, or buildings) will make the model a Vignette or Diorama, which must then be entered in the proper Diorama category (see Rule 19, below). So, if you want to compete in a single-subject category, don’t make a Vignette to see how far you can push the boundary! Any vehicle entry that has more than basic groundwork will be defined as a Vignette (see Rule 19, below), and will be transferred to the appropriate Category for judging there. Any model entered into an AFV category that is displayed upon a base, permanently or temporarily, may have no more than two (2) figures in total and the figure(s) must be a crew member; only one (1) figure may be affixed to the base off the vehicle; a second figure must be affixed to or within the vehicle model. If there are more than two figures total, the entry will be defined as a Vignette, and will be transferred to the appropriate Category for judging there. 19. Dioramas – Vignettes. In Classes I through IV, the number of subjects (vehicles and/or figures) will determine in which category an entry is placed. Entries with no more than five (5) figures and/or a single vehicle subject will be placed into the Small Composition or Vignette categories. Entries with two or more vehicles and/or more than five figures will be placed into the Large Composition or Diorama categories. Dioramas are story-centric, specifically built to tell a story or convey a message. Storyline will be considered equally to construction and finish of the individual subjects, figures, and other presentation components; a technically well-done diorama with a weak story line will be at a disadvantage to one with a strong storyline. Vignettes may also tell a story, or may simply depict a ‘moment in time/location’. A previous national contest winner may be used as part of a diorama, so long as it is not the primary focus of the diorama. So a storyline is still the focus on a better diorama. And while a single vehicle in a setting without figures can be a Vignette it can also be a Diorama. I always look at Shep Paine's "The Lady Be Good" diorama as a strong visage of this. While there are no figures, just a wrecked and abandoned aircraft, the story is strong and even more so if you know the story. Sometimes a good title helps sell that story.

Hi David, Love your stuff. The rules pretty much spell it out: Vignette (Small Composition) = single craft, no more than 5 figures Diorama (Large Composition) = 2 or more craft and/or more than 5 figures Based on that all of these would fit the Vignette category except, probably, the first one. I would say 2 camels = 2 craft plus there is a lot of action so a decent storyline would put that in Dioramas. Also, the Cape Buffalo could be entered in Figures though I don't see anything specific in that category which means it would probably end up in Miscellaneous. The Fork lift would be a good Vignette but could also be entered in the Automotive - Commercial Vehicles - Light Commercial category. The Motorcycle could be entered in the Motorcycle category. The Pershing would probably end up in Vignettes. This is how I would do it and since I judge the Dioramas and Misc classes, someone might actually listen to my opinion.

Guess I should post some pics. You can see the whole album here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iFhVjKcMDKwFAoHBA

Another good question Chris. My thought on this is even if was not cut but displayed in a water scene, that it probably wouldn't qualify for BKB, unless you could pull it out and display it on a stand for the competition. Personally I plan to do all of my boats in a scenic scene as I just prefer them that way. But I am only the 1st VP and not part of the NCC so what do I know. I will keep you informed on what I hear back from the NCC unless someone there posts here first. I know the Head Ship Judge is in the forum so hopefully he will chime in.

Actually Jim, I think that would. That is definitely be a modification to the original kit.