This forum is for posting information about upcoming IPMS contests and shows. Contest representatives should include the date, time and relevant info about their contests here. A point of contact with phone and/or e-mail address is required. Contest info will be removed after the contest date. Do not post contest results here, post a link in the General Modeling forum.
If you want to buy or sell modeling-related items, you can post them here. Vendors can also use this topic to post specials and deals for the entire forum membership to see. Please include an expiration date with any special deals posted. Disclaimer: The IPMS/USA takes no responsibility for the content of posts made here. Any opinions or transactions taking place here are between the members involved and not the IPMS/USA. Forum rules ARE in effect here.
Folks, this is the Aircraft Build section of the forum. In order to keep this thread about the excellent build that initiated this thread and not a history discussion that can become divisive, please confine your comments to the build, itself.
History, opinion, discussion of Operation Paperclip is better suited for the Bullpen section of the forum.
Please edit your posts accordingly.
Trying to decide which idea to go with.
Der Mann im Hohen Schloss (Man in the High Castle)
1/72 Ho 229 with alternate timeline theme
האיש בטירה הגבוהה
Sherut Avir, Israeli air force development program
The Sherut Avir was founded in 1948
Aquired Axis and Allied aircraft and integrated into program, BF 109, Spitfire, P-51D, S-199
Operation Paperclip theme
Plane and Jeep with netting etc.
Area 51 Alien theme?
Very nicely done! I built the Revell kit many moons ago, and the Zukei Mura kit is certainly worlds apart! The diorama should be a sight to see, can't wait until you get it finished and post pictures.
I would like to clarify several items:
1. The CIA did not exist until 1947. Operation PAPERCLIP fell under the auspices of the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA).
2. The Horten Brothers were not included in the relocation of German engineers under PAPERCLIP. One brother, Reimar, did move to Argentina after the war, but it was of his own accord. The other brother, Walter, remained in Germany and later was an officer with the reconstituted Luftwaffe under the Bundeswehr.
3. The scientists weren't relocated to Argentina en masse. Most came straight to the U.S. Several emigrated to Mexico and then to the United States, but only one, Walter Schreiber, later moved from the U.S. to Argentina. Many of the scientists who later left the United States returned to their native Germany.
4. Jack Northrop had devoted his life to the design of flying wings, some say to the detriment of his career and companies that bore his name. The fact that the Horten brothers also designed one is merely an example of similar technologies developing simultaneously in different places.
As far as the Hortens contributing to stealth designs, I doubt they contributed much, if anything at all. Stealth design requires an in depth knowledge not only of aircraft design, but of physics, specifically electronics, radiation, and microwave design. Reimar died in 1994 (85 years old); Walter died in 1998 (83 years old). I find it hard to imagine that they were that deeply involved with the physics behind radar in their 70's that they could contribute any meaningful information.
For all intents and purposes, the Me-163 could be considered a "flying wing", too, but it doesn't mean Willy Messerschmitt knew any more or less about "stealth" and radar than his contemporaries.
5. Whatever your feelings about PAPERCLIP (and the origin of scientists involved), the fact is that without theses scientists, some say our first moon landings wouldn't have occurred until the late 1970's at the earliest. True? No? Just throwing it out there. Yes, most of these scientists worked for--and sometimes participated in--a repressive, genocidal, Fascist government. But the rationale was that we needed to get them so the Soviets wouldn't, so past sins were ignored.
FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc.