philp

Nice stuff Mark. Even though I swore I would never build another Roden kit again I picked up the Desert version of the armored car at Hobby Island in Vegas when I was there for their Grand Opening. Just had to show my support. The Battle needs a nose job to look more like the real thing. There are/were 1 or 2 conversion sets on the market. The Mossie is still a great kit and the only Mk XVIII in kit form (the one with the 6 ldr gun). The He-111 is not a great kit but I think it is still the only one on the market with the dorsal turret to make a H-20 or H-22. The ships are all nice kits.

Just in case you want to know the reason for the change in the rule, it is spelled out in the Rules: "Redefining/Renaming Out-of-the Box (OOB): Manufacturers now offer comprehensive model kits which include what used to be separately purchased after-market detailing accessories . In addition, numerous requests over the years to add after-market parts to a list of ‘allowable exceptions’ have acted to dilute the purpose of out-of-the-box categories which were intended to promote building basic kits. Starting with the 2022 national contest, the OOB categories (and the rules for them) have been renamed to Basic Kit Build (BKB), to better describe the intent for this competition classification – older or more basic kits, absent extra manufactured detailing parts."

Which is why that kit wouldn't qualify as a BKB. You would enter in the regular ship category.

Actually, the way the rule is written, the fact that the kit includes PE excludes it from the BKB category. "Kits with various other materials included (e.g. cast-resin or 3D-resin detailing accessories, etched metal detailing frets, turned-metal detailing parts, and other similar detailing parts) will not be permitted." It doesn't matter whether you use them or not, the fact they are included with the kit is the deciding factor, at least, as the rule is written.

I get what you are saying but I have always been taught to not judge figures unless they are entered in the Figures or Dioramas categories. Not saying that because we always have is the best answer but I think it works. Actually, to be honest, I seldom have had to judge bedrolls either. Most Military vehicles loose out due to basic modeling flaws just like ever other category. Wonky wheels, seamlines on guns, over weathering to cover basic construction flaws (just kidding, seeing if anyone besides you and me is paying attention 😜). Seldom does it get down to how well the add-ons are done. If needed I am more likely to be checking if they are secured to the vehicle or just glued on, etc. That might be the deciding factor if we get down to a couple of really great builds but other than that, not so much. I am kind of like you in that I like a figure or 2 to help set a sense of scale and add some life to the build but most guys who build tanks, planes, cars, ships, Gundams, etc. are just interested in the vehicles themselves and that is what the main categories seem to be designed to cater to. I personally would like to see some consistency around the rule in other categories. I mean, 2 guys on a tank on a scenic base needs to be moved but 100+ little guys wandering around on a ship in a water setting can stay in Ships? If you want to get changes made to the rules, contact the NCC. That is what I did earlier this year with a request to add more Vignette Categories to accommodate some of the stuff that gets moved during the show and that happened. I don't know if they were talking about it before I sent Mark my email or not but they are in place for this year. Looking forward to seeing you at the show and we can definitely chat more about this.

David, Hmm, the difference between a figure and a bedroll is pretty easy. Most people can make a bedroll look ok (even me on occasion) but painting figures to look good is an art unto itself. I can't tell you the number of modelers who refuse to include a figure because they lack that skill. Taking that into consideration, how would you take that into judging criteria. Say you have two tanks, booth done very well with similar errors but one has a decently painted figure. The category is Tanks not Tanks with crews. That is why I support the "ignore the figures" aspect of it. Could a new category for Vehicles with Crews be created? Now there is an idea. I would say there are enough entries each year at Nats that would qualify for that kind of category. But now you have to have judges who can judge vehicles and figures and decide which portion has the best chance. When you compare an OK halftrack with some great figures vs a great tank with some mediocre figures, who gets the nod? Saying that, I wonder what Mark and Dave would think of that idea?

Huh, thought I submitted this last night but must have forgot to hit the button. I can't remember seeing an aircraft with figures being moved into Dioramas at least during the shows I have judged at. Military vehicles get moved all the time including ones with no scenic base and even no base at all but too many figures on the vehicle. Really they have no chance in Dioramas. With solid Vignette categories they at least have a chance, if they have a base. The new rules seem to support that the seaplane should stay in the Aircraft category if that is where you enter it and as Jim has said, that will be the case. "Aircraft and military vehicles may rest on simulated ground or paving, and aircraft that need beaching gear or dollies may be so equipped. Ships may be displayed in water (no dry docks). The base must not be the predominant feature of the entry and must be of a size proportionate to the model. The Contest Chairman and Judges reserve the right to exclude oversize bases. The model may include primary crew figures (see Rule 15, immediately below, for limits for Military Vehicles). The addition of any other figures or equipment outside or not attached to the model (e.g., support equipment, shell splashes, or buildings) will make the model a Vignette or Diorama, which must then be entered in the proper Diorama category." Dave, I am really curious why the rule was implemented in the Military Vehicles categories that caused the limitation in number and placement of figures. In every other contest that I have judged we ignore the figures if the model is entered in a vehicle category (Aircraft, Armor, Auto, Ship and Sci-Fi), same with any bases. If you want the figures judged as part of the entry then the Abrams would have to move to Vignettes. More than likely there was some stink put up by a contestant(s) about an armor entry winning over another because their figures were better or something. But this rule was in place when I started judging at the National level. It would be great if an Armor judge had the inside scoop on what caused the rule.

Here are some of the rules around Vignettes/Dioramas. The addition of any other figures or equipment outside or not attached to the model (e.g., support equipment, shell splashes, or buildings) will make the model a Vignette or Diorama, which must then be entered in the proper Diorama category (see Rule 19, below). So, if you want to compete in a single-subject category, don’t make a Vignette to see how far you can push the boundary! Any vehicle entry that has more than basic groundwork will be defined as a Vignette (see Rule 19, below), and will be transferred to the appropriate Category for judging there. Any model entered into an AFV category that is displayed upon a base, permanently or temporarily, may have no more than two (2) figures in total and the figure(s) must be a crew member; only one (1) figure may be affixed to the base off the vehicle; a second figure must be affixed to or within the vehicle model. If there are more than two figures total, the entry will be defined as a Vignette, and will be transferred to the appropriate Category for judging there. 19. Dioramas – Vignettes. In Classes I through IV, the number of subjects (vehicles and/or figures) will determine in which category an entry is placed. Entries with no more than five (5) figures and/or a single vehicle subject will be placed into the Small Composition or Vignette categories. Entries with two or more vehicles and/or more than five figures will be placed into the Large Composition or Diorama categories. Dioramas are story-centric, specifically built to tell a story or convey a message. Storyline will be considered equally to construction and finish of the individual subjects, figures, and other presentation components; a technically well-done diorama with a weak story line will be at a disadvantage to one with a strong storyline. Vignettes may also tell a story, or may simply depict a ‘moment in time/location’. A previous national contest winner may be used as part of a diorama, so long as it is not the primary focus of the diorama. So a storyline is still the focus on a better diorama. And while a single vehicle in a setting without figures can be a Vignette it can also be a Diorama. I always look at Shep Paine's "The Lady Be Good" diorama as a strong visage of this. While there are no figures, just a wrecked and abandoned aircraft, the story is strong and even more so if you know the story. Sometimes a good title helps sell that story.

Hi David, Love your stuff. The rules pretty much spell it out: Vignette (Small Composition) = single craft, no more than 5 figures Diorama (Large Composition) = 2 or more craft and/or more than 5 figures Based on that all of these would fit the Vignette category except, probably, the first one. I would say 2 camels = 2 craft plus there is a lot of action so a decent storyline would put that in Dioramas. Also, the Cape Buffalo could be entered in Figures though I don't see anything specific in that category which means it would probably end up in Miscellaneous. The Fork lift would be a good Vignette but could also be entered in the Automotive - Commercial Vehicles - Light Commercial category. The Motorcycle could be entered in the Motorcycle category. The Pershing would probably end up in Vignettes. This is how I would do it and since I judge the Dioramas and Misc classes, someone might actually listen to my opinion.

Guess I should post some pics. You can see the whole album here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iFhVjKcMDKwFAoHBA

Another good question Chris. My thought on this is even if was not cut but displayed in a water scene, that it probably wouldn't qualify for BKB, unless you could pull it out and display it on a stand for the competition. Personally I plan to do all of my boats in a scenic scene as I just prefer them that way. But I am only the 1st VP and not part of the NCC so what do I know. I will keep you informed on what I hear back from the NCC unless someone there posts here first. I know the Head Ship Judge is in the forum so hopefully he will chime in.

Actually Jim, I think that would. That is definitely be a modification to the original kit.

Hum, interesting that pretty much the rest of the armor categories have a BKB but not artillery. Wonder if that could be a split?

Yep, that is where we judged them in Vegas.

Great looking build Chris. I think drilling out the portholes and gun barrels still falls under the BKB rules but I think the work done on the cranes might keep it out of the BKB category. "● Ship models aren’t required to have railings, radar antennas, or rigging, nor can they be added unless they’re included or noted in kit instructions." - The instructions clearly show rigging so you are fine there. "B. Construction. The modeler may fill seams and gaps; sand off rivets; drill out gun ports, exhaust pipes, or other appropriate openings; thin to-scale such parts as trailing edges, flaps, and doors; re-scribe panel lines lost in construction, and add rigging and antennas, if shown on the kit’s instructions. No major reconstruction or modifications will be allowed for BKB entries." The construction rule is where is gets a little shaky in my opinion. It could be argued that opening the crane up is "appropriate" but once you add the cables to the crane, you have exceeded the intent of what is in the box. If you had original cranes you could put on the model you would be good for the show and then swap them back afterwards. It really does add to the look. Or you could enter it in the regular ship category, I have also sent an email to the NCC to see if drilling out the cranes themselves would still qualify for the BKB category or if that is going a bit more than the intended context of the rule. I will post the answer when I get one.

Hi Chris, I can't find the instructions for the PoW but did find them for the King George which I think are pretty similar. That shows no PE in the kit so meets the single media and it shows rigging is noted in the instructions so adding that stays in the rules. Have you done any modifications, etc.?

Nice stuff. Mark, remember the Airfix Firefly should not have the bow gun installed. There should be an armored plate over the location.

The 2020 theme (no larger than 4") will be a special award for this show. Orange is the theme for this year's show.

Usually you get 3+ clubs working together to make one happen and that just gets you a start on manpower. I have volunteered to man the doors or help with placing models and, of course, judging.

Albuquerque was my 3rd Nats. I have also made it to a Regional there and would go back again in a heartbeat.

I also had a great time in 07. Think it was the first time we set up a What If SIG table. Unfortunately there were some tech issues that a few people complained about. I never saw them and had a great time. The chances of a SLC show are also slim due to their one Nats in 1980. This was before the Board got more involved and the local crew lost a lot of personal money. I keep asking but may be a while longer before they think about it again.

An east coast show would please a bunch though might make it hard for those of us out west but I would like to go to Atlanta, New Orleans, Philly, someplace in Florida. Would be good to have another closer to home. Would be great if the locals here in SLC would go for another. Albuquerque, Seattle, Portland, Denver all would be good also.

Info has no been posted yet. Probably after Feb. 1st. https://ipmsusa2022.com/index.cfm?mode=vendors

That's cool Carlos. I keep hoping Special Hobby will follow up their recent AD-4W with an AD-5W.

Hi Paul, I have the sheet but if those are the only markings on the sheet that I hope to use if I ever get a kit or conversion for it. Phil