More Resignations

[BWScholten]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:25 PM, steev said:

I was looking into railing to Wonderfest from here in Tidewater, one state away to avoid the 11 hr. drive and what I came up with was that you can't even get to Louisville by train. You can transfer to a bus and it's a 27 hour total ordeal. A plane is about 3.5 hr. and that includes a stop or two. LOL

I,ve stopped flying altogether.  I'll bring one or two to Madison, and my son will bring some.  I'd be concerned with TSA breaking them during an "inspection".

Two days to Madison. 2-3 to Virginia.

[noelsmith]

Cameron, of course flying is faster than a train, but I am talking about high speed trains not what you have available in the US at present for passenger transport.

Before you say more I am aware that even high speed trains cannot match the speed of a jet plane. But running at 150 to 200 mph with the advantage of city centre access I think that many Americans would use them for comfort.

Having flown many times in cramped aircraft and having used the Eurostar and French TVG trains I know what I would prefer, plus I can carry much more on board. I understand that the US is currently looking into the possibility of high speed trains up and down the East and West coasts. The US could well invest in its passenger train infrastucture. What time would it take a cross USA train travelling at 200 mph to travel from  say New York to Los Angeles and servicing some mid West cities along the way.I

We see many Old West movies about the pioneering spirit in building the railways across the US. Maybe it needs that again to provide clean and reasonably fast travel given the size of the country.

 

Edited February 1 by noelsmith

[Nick Filippone]

Last summer, it took me 36 hours to get from Austin, Texas to Albany, New York, most of it spent waiting for the much vaunted airline industry to get its act together. I could have driven it faster myself. Add to that the fact that it is getting harder and harder to find a safe place in the cabin to put even a small box of entries.

The two great advantages of being a subject of His Majesty: a Parliamentary system of government and a great train system. Where can I sign up? Nick
 

 

[ghodges]

Travel points all well and taken..... Even IF the US ever invests in and builds a network of high-speed rail lines making travel easier here, it'll probably not be in OUR lifetime, at least not in the immediate future (5/10/20yrs). 

So, IPMSUSA will have to continue its policy of making sure our Nats are within relatively easy driving distances (8-16hrs) of large population centers that can provide the attendance and revenue to sustain their success.

While I personally think having it in one central location could be made to work, THAT would be a distance problem for at least 1/2, if not 2/3rds of the country every year (which is, ironically, the SAME problem EACH year, just for different sectors each year).

The one location in the UK works, and they can sustain it year in and year out because their ENTIRE local population (those from the Continent and the US are just gravy!) is within 6hrs distance! Heck..... here in Florida it takes that to get to Pensacola or Miami from here in Jacksonville, and we're not even leaving the state!

As I said.... comparing our Nats and the UK's SMW is an apples to oranges comparison. We have to EACH approach our own attendees and our own membership to see what we need to do. We can certainly ask and poll non-members too, but only after FIRST making sure we're taking care of those who are actually paying to go to the Nats and those who're paying to be IPMSUSA members.

 

Gil 

[Highlander]

12 hours ago, BWScholten said:

...Two days to Madison. 2-3 to Virginia.

Four for me.  With scenic stops and mandatory tourist stuff ... more like a week.

[CaptainAhab]

Yeah, I would love high speed trains in the U.S., but I think Gil’s time estimates on ever seeing it are low, I would go with 20-30 years easy and that’s not country wide. The issue with travel time/travel costs has been identified as the main thing keeping people from attending for years now, but attendance at the convention has been growing and that is bringing a different issue that we have been barely skirting around to the forefront, the size of the facilities/hotels where they are held. 
 

We have known for years that in the scope of events our space/area needs are very heavy compared to registration numbers, in other words we don’t have the “weight” in registered attendees to negotiate more, guest rooms, convention space, whatever. We are growing, and are or have out grown our current mode of operation facilities wise, regardless of geographic location, and the only answers are going to cost more, this in my opinion is the most urgent issue to work on, just look at the hoops the Madison crew is needing to jump through to put theirs on, and they are not the first.

[ghodges]

Interesting thought Michael.... and the IPMSUSA Nats is, in those terms of the growth of the contest and the vendors, a victim of its own success!

Having attended 32 Nats since 1978, and having seen it in just about every possible "setting" from convention centers, to hotels, to even a large motel, today's Nats makes those of 20-30-40yrs ago pale by comparison. I can remember when we ran out of vendor space the vendors would overflow into HOTEL ROOMS; not another hall! Now you routinely have major manufacturers like Eduard/Hasagawa/Revell that buy 30-50 tables just for their own purposes, let alone all of the lesser model makers and garage industry types, and the vendors alone take up 2-3 halls. I can recall when the model contest first broke the 1000 model barrier, then the 2000 count, and now 3000+ is not out of the norm.

The HUGE growth in both of those areas has meant we HAVE to find the larger convention centers and facilities, BUT at the same time we cannot afford the prices of those places in the BIG cities and thus have to target "2nd tier" cities to find something big enough and yet affordable. And that limits our choices in both places AND clubs.... as their ALSO needs to be a willing, capable host near enough to that facility!

How do you put limits on the vendors or the contest? To a degree, the vendors already DO have a limit; that being the capacity of whatever facility is being used. But do we cap it JUST to be able to afford and find slightly smaller facilities? You could also put limits on the contest simply by charging a fee per model after the first 1 or 2..... but do we want to do that? If you believe the few polls taken, viewing the models rates among the highest of the things enjoyed most by the attendees. It would seem to be a bad idea to give attendees less incentive to bring fewer models and everyone have less to view. And to cap it off..... MOST attendees rate the vendors and the models as the reasons they even decide to come..... being more important than winning in the contest, tours, the banquet, or seminars. Changing or limiting either of those areas might start a downward spiral in attendance and revenue.

And therein lies the problem with trying to make "change" at the Nats, especially seemingly JUST for the sake of change. Our Eboard really needs to be careful not to destroy the foundation of success the Nats stands on while trying to introduce new ideas and changes to its structure. It'll take a fine balancing act to be able to do both going forward!

 

Gil 

[RONBO]

57 minutes ago, ghodges said:

Interesting thought Michael.... and the IPMSUSA Nats is, in those terms of the growth of the contest and the vendors, a victim of its own success!

Having attended 32 Nats since 1978, and having seen it in just about every possible "setting" from convention centers, to hotels, to even a large motel, today's Nats makes those of 20-30-40yrs ago pale by comparison. I can remember when we ran out of vendor space the vendors would overflow into HOTEL ROOMS; not another hall! Now you routinely have major manufacturers like Eduard/Hasagawa/Revell that buy 30-50 tables just for their own purposes, let alone all of the lesser model makers and garage industry types, and the vendors alone take up 2-3 halls. I can recall when the model contest first broke the 1000 model barrier, then the 2000 count, and now 3000+ is not out of the norm.

The HUGE growth in both of those areas has meant we HAVE to find the larger convention centers and facilities, BUT at the same time we cannot afford the prices of those places in the BIG cities and thus have to target "2nd tier" cities to find something big enough and yet affordable. And that limits our choices in both places AND clubs.... as their ALSO needs to be a willing, capable host near enough to that facility!

How do you put limits on the vendors or the contest? To a degree, the vendors already DO have a limit; that being the capacity of whatever facility is being used. But do we cap it JUST to be able to afford and find slightly smaller facilities? You could also put limits on the contest simply by charging a fee per model after the first 1 or 2..... but do we want to do that? If you believe the few polls taken, viewing the models rates among the highest of the things enjoyed most by the attendees. It would seem to be a bad idea to give attendees less incentive to bring fewer models and everyone have less to view. And to cap it off..... MOST attendees rate the vendors and the models as the reasons they even decide to come..... being more important than winning in the contest, tours, the banquet, or seminars. Changing or limiting either of those areas might start a downward spiral in attendance and revenue.

And therein lies the problem with trying to make "change" at the Nats, especially seemingly JUST for the sake of change. Our Eboard really needs to be careful not to destroy the foundation of success the Nats stands on while trying to introduce new ideas and changes to its structure. It'll take a fine balancing act to be able to do both going forward!

 

Gil 

Gil, just some food for thought. Chattanooga was a perfect situation where the city Visitors and Convention bureau worked with the home club in a positive way. Mike Moore the Convention chairman worked with the convention center to bring our National Convention to Chattanooga years before IPMS actually chose Chattanooga to host in 2019.

The Chattanooga club had outgrown their local event space they began looking for other places to hold their annual show they found the Chattanooga Convention Center was willing to work with them with a expectation that somewhere down the road that a National Convention would be held in Chattanooga. 

So low and behold the club were able to have their local shows at the Convention Center. This showed me a couple of things. Local clubs who wish to hold a National Convention should work directly with the City Convention and Visitors Centers.

The second thing I learned is that once you have that relationship the hotels get the word that a major Convention is coming to town and may be more likely to work with the local chapter running the Convention. 

I personally  one  of my local clubs hosted a Regional by working with city visitors bureau of Ottawa IL 50 miles from where the home club meets. A vendor turned me on to the thought to having a Regional in Ottawa he happened to live there. He filled me that the town was looking for events in town.

I made the trip with the club President and made a presentation to the local community leaders explained what IPMS is and what we do as holding a contest and would draw modelers from several States.

They liked the presentation they asked us what we needed I told them we needed a place to hold the event then I was truly shocked the visitors committee offered us $750.00 to help find Convention space. Needless to say our club found a space. It was a simple but wonderful event.

The Chattanooga Convention was a perfect storm of a local club working with the city to bring a National Convention to Tennessee. I'm sure that in my experience this Convention was the best experience for members of IPMS. A vendor room as large as a grocery store. Then a model room just as large and enough room for display only that equaled the contest area. The thing that made me happy was the award ceremony where every member who wished to attend was able to see everything no trying to steal a chair to sit in a hallway with a door cracked open to see who won what.

So I don't know maybe build relationships with Visitor and Convention Centers in second and third tier cities and IPMS may gain a more favorable responses to hold a National Convention. I think it is worth exploring. I'm sure post Covid prices and inflation has effected costs.

I have been to Nationals on the West coast and the Midwest the most affordable in my experience is the Midwest. The Mid South is also affordable. But going forward I think you will see that a split in the membership that cannot afford the travel and others that have no problem at all. That over time will affect attendance.

Ron Ronbo Thorne Jr. 

Head Bottle Washer. 

 

 

[CaptainAhab]

6 hours ago, ghodges said:

….How do you put limits on the vendors or the contest? To a degree, the vendors already DO have a limit; that being the capacity of whatever facility is being used. But do we cap it JUST to be able to afford and find slightly smaller facilities? You could also put limits on the contest simply by charging a fee per model after the first 1 or 2..... but do we want to do that?   Gil ….

I agree, I don’t think limits on vendors or entries is the answer, or on displaying models, it’s what we are about. But could there be other ways, I look at the cost to go to our convention and I’m always amazed, at how low it is all travel/hotel costs aside, at usually right around $50 bucks to register for a four day convention is dirt cheap in my opinion. Look at other hobby conventions, NMRA for instance is $195 for members (companion/spouse $100) and includes an early entry to some events. These are the questions I have;

Are the costs to vendors comparable to other like events, table costs, etc? Are table costs the only fee convention organizers for like events charge vendors?
 

The banquet is usually mandatory to get a better price on the facilities, so why is it voluntary for registration? If the current number of banquet tickets sold brings the facilities rate down what would double that do? If anything? 
 

Access, I understand the reasons to let non-member attend, try to make them members, but what does a member get for registering that say day pass attendees don’t get? Besides entering the contest, judging and the ability to go to the banquet why register? Or for that matter join IPMS?

 

 

 

[Ron Bell]

 

Just some random thought.

Allow members only on Thurs. and maybe even Friday. Maybe even charge a premium to attend on Thurs. for a first shot at the venders. Open it to the general public on Fri/Sat. Venders may moan that we're restricting their customer base, and, well, we would be. but who runs the show, them or us? 

The banquet usually does not affect the price of the facilities. It's part of a separate food/beverage requirement and has been the source of much debate and rancor for years.

Check other hobby cons to see what the "going rate" is for venders and adjust ours accordingly. Has anyone ever heard a vender complain that s/he lost money at a National Convention or that it wasn't worth exposing their product/s to a large audience in person?

The single biggest problem I've seen in "building relationships" with hotels or cities or whatever is our lack of continuity. We did have a relationship with Marriot but it fell by the wayside in one of the many changes of our leadership and I've seen efforts in other areas die for the same reason. Its hard to get anything done in just 2 years. Maybe we need to change the terms of our officers to 4 years and not elect all of them at the same time. An example would be elect the President and 2nd VP in XX24 to serve until XX28. Then elect the Secretary and 1st VP in XX26 to serve until XX30. That way there's always some experienced members on the board and it may help our institutional memory, which at the moment is dreadful.

[Nick Filippone]

The National Vendors are just as much our “customers” as the registrants or walk-ins. They are the main reason, myself included, why many people attend the National Convention. They may not run the show, but their enthusiastic presence and financial support is vital to its success. No such decision potentially restricting their reasonable profit should be even considered without their input. Nick

[MikeMoore]

After staying out of this for 9 pages, I'll throw a few thoughts out based on my experience running the 2019 Nats.

First, Gil, I don't know of any vendors that are using 30-50 tables, even at the Nats.  Eduard, Special Hobby, and Free Time Hobbies were our three whale type vendors if I remember right.  Free Time took up space where we would have placed about 25 tables.  I think Eduard and Special Hobby were more like 20 tables worth of space.  But it does look impressive in the room.

As for Ron's comments, the Chattanooga Convention Center actually cold called us.  They had a saleswoman who was scouring convention records from around the country and had seen the IPMS USA Convention pop up several times, reached out to Marie, and Marie sent her to us.  We had just started hosting our local show in the multi-use room of one of our club member's church, which we ended up out growing after 2 years.  The convention center hooked us up with affordable space and the club has run its show there ever since.  That did help build a great working relationship with the convention center (which I'll hit on later).  We were also able to work closely with the Chattanooga Visitor's Bureau to secure good hotel contracts.  The CVB was also able to get us within spitting distance of getting some serious Volkswagen sponsorship money.  Unfortunately, after looking into what the convention was all about and the seeming emphasis on military models, the corporate honcho's put a halt on that sponsorship.  Of course, our theme of "Was it Over When the German's Bombed Pearl Harbor?" may have played a part in that decision?????

To Michael's point about the banquet.  The need for a banquet is two fold.  Many members like it and want it.  And, in order to meet the food and beverage requirements of most facilities, a banquet is the best option.  In Chattanooga we opted to pay the $5000 rental for the room and do the desert thing rather than do a banquet.  We could have done a banquet and gotten the room for "free", but chose to try something new.  Which many folks really appreciated, even thought the desert bar concept really tanked.  As to requiring banquet for registration, I'd say that in almost all cases, that's a physical impossibility.  You can't get that many people seated in the room, which is why people complain about feeling like second class citizens having to sit in the hallway listening to the awards presentation.

There are other costs like banquets though.  Audio-Visual can be one.  We took a look at the AV vendor's pricing and decided to do much of it on our own.  They were charging $600 a day for LCD projectors.  4 projectors (one for each seminar room) would have cost $2700 for 3 days.  We spent $800 to buy one good one and borrowed several others.  We also bought projection screens rather than renting them.  Our AV budget would have been 75% higher than it ended up being if we'd have had to rent everything.  But talking to the guys in Phoenix, they didn't have that option.  They were required to rent everything from the facility AV vendor.  There are just some costs that some hosts just can't avoid.

To add to Ron's point about the difficulty of maintaining relationships, I'll attest it's hard.  Again, the Chattanooga Chapter had a great working relationship through 8 years of local shows and the National Convention.  Once the Nats came and went, that relationship has started to fray.  I'm no longer in Chattanooga, but I keep in touch and attend the local show every January, and the new head guy running the show was telling me this year that the relationship is really strained.  The price breaks the club used to enjoy are no longer on the table, and their responsiveness is dropping.  This after more than 10 years working together and the same folks largely being involved.  The other shocker was how quickly the relationship with the Marriott attached to the convention center fell apart.  The hotel sold to new ownership during Covid, and when the club tried to get a reasonable rate for a small block of rooms for their January show they were given a rate of something on the order of $180 a night.  When we tried to explain we had a 10 year relationship working with them and had sold out the hotel for a solid week, management shrugged an said that was then.

And finally, to Nat's point about vendors.  Yes, we do rely on them.  At $100 per table for the nats, and nearly 400 vendor tables sold, they generated north of $30,000 in income for the convention after table rental costs.   We couldn't hold a Nats without them without significant cost increases for the attendees.  However, we can't discount what the vendors get from coming to the show.  It's a two way street and it has to work for both sides.

[WasatchModeler]

14 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

I agree, I don’t think limits on vendors or entries is the answer, or on displaying models, it’s what we are about. But could there be other ways, I look at the cost to go to our convention and I’m always amazed, at how low it is all travel/hotel costs aside, at usually right around $50 bucks to register for a four day convention is dirt cheap in my opinion. Look at other hobby conventions, NMRA for instance is $195 for members (companion/spouse $100) and includes an early entry to some events. These are the questions I have;

Are the costs to vendors comparable to other like events, table costs, etc? Are table costs the only fee convention organizers for like events charge vendors?
 

The banquet is usually mandatory to get a better price on the facilities, so why is it voluntary for registration? If the current number of banquet tickets sold brings the facilities rate down what would double that do? If anything? 
 

Access, I understand the reasons to let non-member attend, try to make them members, but what does a member get for registering that say day pass attendees don’t get? Besides entering the contest, judging and the ability to go to the banquet why register? Or for that matter join IPMS?

 

 

 

Good points

[ghodges]

I hope the people who always say "why don't we just" (for the Nats) read Mike's detailed reply above. It gives great info and a glimpse of the complexities involved in hosting the Nats, as well as explaining WHY things are done the way they are and have been done.

As well intentioned as most suggestions are... most do not have a clue....

 

Gil 

[Highlander]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:26 PM, ghodges said:

... people who always say "why don't we just" ...

As well intentioned as most suggestions are... most do not have a clue....

Two points -- per the excerpts above.

First, my experience is that, most often, people say  "Why can't you just"...  Which is a version of "Why can't somebody else do what I want done"....

Second, I very much agree.  Over time, I have concluded that the average IPMS member had not a clue how IPMS, the National Convention, or the National Contest work.  That, BTW, is not a criticism ... there is no need for the average member to know.  The average member needs to know just enough to register for the Nats and enter his entries.  The issue, as I see it, is the members who have not a clue, but are energized to demand that damn near every thing be changed.  Witness recent events.

Edited February 9 by Highlander

[noelsmith]

Ron Bell asked the question about vendors, 'Do they run the show or us?' Well if it is the vendors coming up with the readies that virtually finance the show then to a large extent they do. If I were trading and paying for floor space for all the days at the convention I would be very annoyed at having some of my customer base taken away by restricted access for whole days. If the vendors disappeared my guess is the show would collapse as I cannot see IPMS being able to fully fund it to be realistic.

What works at our show at Telford is that IPMS members get in an hour earlier than Joe Public on each day. First bite at the cherry for members on each day without upsetting the traders who largely fund the show.

 

Edited February 6 by noelsmith

[Ron Bell]

Noel, the one hour early access is what I was trying to get at. Unfortunately, the norm here has been all have access from the start so to now put a limit on the first hour would be the restriction of their customer base that you so correctly said they'd resent. It is a Gordian knot for sure and we don't currently have our Alexander in position to solve this particular problem. 

[EFGrune]

Way back before the 2000 show in Dallas the North Central Texas folks tried to have Wednesday (afternoon, noon to 5) as a members only day.   What trade show can you, as a non-member, walk into and have the same perks and access as a member.     Push back from the vendors and their advocates on the board -- they;ll miss 5 hours of potential sales to the folks who wouldn't pay to support the organization anyway.    

[RONBO]

1 hour ago, EFGrune said:

Way back before the 2000 show in Dallas the North Central Texas folks tried to have Wednesday (afternoon, noon to 5) as a members only day.   What trade show can you, as a non-member, walk into and have the same perks and access as a member.     Push back from the vendors and their advocates on the board -- they;ll miss 5 hours of potential sales to the folks who wouldn't pay to support the organization anyway.    

To to add Dallas Convention also had busses to go to a local major hobby warehouse. So vendors in the Convention proper were slighted.

I believe non members should pay a premium for access to vendors and the National Convention. And I might add tighter security to control that. I'd stand a post to help with that.

Ron Thorne Jr. 

Head Bottle Washer. 

[ghodges]

The idea of restricting access to the vendors in order to give IPMS members an advantage comes with the need to actually PHYSICALLY RESTRICT access.... After all, it does no good to try this idea and then not stop and check badges, tickets, or whatever "system" is used to make it work.

Who will do that? Local volunteers? Not only are the local show hosts already overtaxed for manpower, but this would entail adding a particularly onerous duty to their list of jobs to be filled for the show. How many of YOU would be willing to step in front of, or even grab an arm to STOP an attendee who's waltzing into the vendor entrance? How many want to play the "ID CHECK game" at the start of the hall or at the vendor room doors? Want to talk about the possibilities of creating a lot of BAD feelings among attendees if you get someone who likes to throw their weight around in those situations?

Or will we hire local Security Guards to at least be present to help and act as intimidators? Even if that worked like a charm you're still adding yet another expense to the cost of hosting a Nats. And what for? To give some people a one or one and 1/2 day head start at the vendors, who DON'T WANT any restrictions to start with?

Restrictions are a bad idea.

We need to instead investigate the idea of raising the costs of NON-IPMS MEMBERS to attend the show. Welcome them, but don't give them such a price break. Make it worth their while to join IPMSUSA, even if only for that year as compared to shopping and looking at models for 2-3 days. And perhaps we could even add a "PREMIUM CHARGE" to the general entry fees for the first 2 days, Wednesday and Thursday and make them a pay a bit more for that early access. AND DON'T BE APOLOGETIC about it! It's OUR convention for OUR members. BUT, after they pay more for their access, don't try to control where they go and what they see or do.

 

Gil 

[BWScholten]

"Noel, the one hour early access is what I was trying to get at. Unfortunately, the norm here has been all have access from the start so to now put a limit on the first hour would be the restriction of their customer base that you so correctly said they'd resent. It is a Gordian knot for sure and we don't currently have our Alexander in position to solve this particular problem. "

It would be interesting to see how much push back we'd get from Vendors if the first hour was dedicated to members.

How many general admissions do we get in the first hour?  That is probably one statistic we can't get.

[ghodges]

Keep in mind that if you're talking about "the first hour", or the "first day"; that's Wednesday.....

Who comes then? The people who HAVE to be there..... the vendors, the show host folks and IPMS officers, and die-hards like me who try to make every convention I can. In other words.... mostly ALL IPMS members. You wouldn't be restricting many people at all.

THURSDAY is really the only day you might have an impact with "restrictions" on a LOT of non-members who get there that day, and again, I think there's more problems with setting up and carrying out restrictions than any benefits it would provide.

I advise applying Ron Bell's idea of the KISS principle.... it's easier to charge non-members more than to try to control where and when they go somewhere once they arrive!

 

Gil 

Edited February 8 by ghodges

[CaptainAhab]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:09 PM, BWScholten said:

How many general admissions do we get in the first hour?  That is probably one statistic we can't get.

I agree this information should be tracked, but not just the first hour. How many day passes are sold each day? How many overall? How many are members? How many are nonmembers? I realize this takes some work but would be very helpful for the board to form strategies moving forward, if that is what is wanted.

On 2/7/2024 at 7:12 AM, ghodges said:

I advise applying Ron Bell's idea of the KISS principle.... it's easier to charge non-members more than to try to control where and when they go somewhere once they arrive!  Gil 

I can see Gil’s logic about controlling access, and completely agree about entry charges. I am just going to say it, I was surprised when I went to my first couple of conventions and you could go without registering for the convention, AND you didn’t have to be a member.

No other organizations (professional or volunteer) that I had or have been involved with ran their conventions that way, you HAD to register for the convention regardless of how much of it you attended, AND be a member of the organization. 

Before I get flogged… I understand that is probably a hill too far, but the charges for attending could be structured to passively encourage and make it a much better deal to become a member and register. I would start with day passes, they are too low IMO, I haven’t seen what Madison’s are yet but IMO they should be higher for nonmembers than members, and should be higher period. For members I would say a day pass would be a little more then half of what registration costs, so going for two days makes registration a better deal, for nonmembers I would say more than that.

I am NOT talking about a sudden change, but over 2-3 years gradually increase these prices, people can acclimate to a slow rise in temperature better than a sudden one. I’m NOT claiming to know better then those who have been involved in putting on a national convention, I have been involved planning and running chapter contests at two different chapters, and larger conventions (1000+people) in my career, so just sharing my experiences from those.

[MikeMoore]

One big problem with sorting out who is and isn’t a member at general admission sales…members who don’t have cards with them…”but honest, I’m a member.  Of course I’m a member.   I have a FOUR DIGIT number, let me in.  HOW DARE YOU QUESTION I’M A MEMBER, just look it up.  WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO GO TO THE IPMS USA TABLE AND WAIT IN THAT LINE TO DO THAT.”

Yes, it will happen.  Unless and until we get the technology in place to have membership data bases available everywhere a member/non-member decision must be made, there will be issues.  
 

As far as tracking GA sales, as recently as 2019, all those sales, and tshirts, raffle tickets, etc sales were tracked, and lost track of with tick marks on yellow pads.  I haven’t attended since I chaired 2019, but unless we’ve upped our point of purchase game, you can kiss that data collection and tracking goodbye.  It ain’t gonna happen.  

[noelsmith]

At Telford, dead easy, we have two queues. One for members and one for non members on each day of the show. When our show opens it is quite easy to control. Whilst IPMS members are queuing to get in a couple of volunteer helpers go along the queue distributing access armbands for the two days to members upon showing their membership card. Any members who only go on the Sunday get their armband issued on the day. As soon as the show opens the substantial members queue gets in very quickly. The traders do not suffer as there are more than  enough IPMS members to keep them all busy before Joe Public comes in an hour later. Unlike the US convention Telford only gets set up on the Friday and is just open for two days, Saturday and Sunday only and not stretched out like the US Nationals over a few more days. So IPMS only access for the first hour on each of the 2 days does not impact the traders at our show.

Also, IPMS UK deliberately prices one day's admission to be a little short of our joining fee to make considering joining worth while. A non member visiting for two days will be paying per day a lot more than the cost of an annual membership that includes two days admission to Telford, our magazine and other IPMS benefits. A no brainer really!

I would imagine at the IPMS USA Nationals although it runs over a longer period than Telford has the main similarity in that the vast majority of attendees are IPMS members anyway and allowing members only in on the first hour of each day will probably not really impact financially on your vendors anyway.

In my case I list the vendors at Telford that I most want to visit and make sure that I make a bee line to visit the ones that interest me most within that first hour and consider it an additional IPMS membership privilege.

 

 

Edited February 9 by noelsmith