CaptainAhab

Unfortunately I need to correct Gil, the rules for OOB from 2025 (Madison) state that entries are limited to “plastic only”. I pasted the aircraft version below, sorry about the formatting that’s how it pasted and I was not able to figure out how to change it. I can tell you in armor we had a good 25-30% of the entries in OOB that had used the etch that came with the kit, which resulted in them being asked to move to a regular category because it would disqualify them, in the same way not having the instructions would. Honestly the rules have been simplified but it’s basically still BKB. I really don’t know yet if they will stay the same or change for 2026. Now, for me personally I think it should be a true “out-of-box”, anything and ONLY what comes with the kit is allowed. If anyone thinks using a kit with etch metal somehow gives some kind of advantage they are either fooling themselves or unaware of what working with etch is like. I guarantee, in armor anyway, that the judges are not impressed just because you have etch metal, everything has to meet the same standard and most etch is more difficult to work with than plastic. This is all concerning the Nationals, questions about chapter shows needs to be asked of that shows host as they have their own rules. H. OOB Categories: A. For aircraft models, “Out of Box” entries are limited to plastic parts, built in accordance with the kit's instructions. Vinyl/rubber wheels are acceptable. Out of Box entries must have the instructions displayed with the model. Out of Box construction may include: 1. Filling seams and gaps 2. Add weight to make the model sit correctly 3. Sanding off rivets and other fine details 4. Rescribing panel lines lost during construction 5. Drilling out gun barrels, exhaust pipes, grilles and the like 6. Thinning down parts such as doors and trailing edges 7. Adding minor antennas (extensive rigging, antennas and radio masts are permitted only if specified in the instructions) 8. Adding simple seat belts (paper or tape). 9. Paint/finish may include brush, spray can, airbrush, metal foil, or natural plastic finish. 10. Decals other than those included in the kit may be used and modelers may paint markings and details. 3D decals are not allowed anywhere on the model 11. Weathering is permitted but not battle damage. 12. Kit instruction sheet must be available for Judges.

I agree with this, OK so it does seem a little pricey, at least it did, anymore it’s not that bad. And it’s not all about the food anyway, it’s supporting the convention and keeping the price of attendance down, maybe delete the banquet and charge more for the convention attendance to make up the extra room charges?

I know a number of people on this thread can remember the banquets from years past, the banquets for the last few years were HUGE improvements over our “slide show” days, so continuing updating and improving is not an issue with me. That said I think there is an unequal divide concerning perceptions of the awards show, between those that regularly go to the banquet and those that don’t. I have always gone to the banquet, it’s part of the convention for me, I could care less how long it goes as I have no plans after except going to the contest room for a bit and then maybe the bar and then my room. Sitting, eating, seeing models I may have missed and talking with both old and new friends has never been a problem for me. I believe it was mentioned that next year Fort Wayne will not have a banquet, OK, but it was also mentioned that it will not be the norm for every convention. While FW doesn’t have a requirement for a banquet in order to get a much better rate on the rooms we need for the vendors and content rooms that will not always be the case, eliminating some sort of banquet is probably not in the cards, but keeping it relevant so it will be well attended and satisfy the requirements is. It seems to me that the banquet is attended by a large percentage of longer term members, and those that attend the entire convention, not exclusively, just mostly. It would be interesting to me anyway to see the difference of opinions between those that go to the banquet and those that don’t, and/or go to a “telecast” version of the awards show. It seems to me the perspectives are different. The answers will certainly be a trial and error process, and tweak along the way, however with the requirements of some sort of dinner maybe the solution is something completely different (to quote Monty Python) like a banquet on a different night with a different presentation, geared to new/continuing members. Congratulations to Hampton on a great convention, they deserve it. For the record, my main critiques of the banquet would be adherence to the posted schedule, the speed of the slide show being too fast and no screens for the people not facing the front of the room, for what it may be worth.

The smartest move was requiring the first night deposit on every room reserved along with the three night minimum, it undoubtedly kept the “reserve six rooms just in case” crowd from doing so. That and thwarting the cheaters. But don’t worry Chris, I’m sure someone will find something to be angry about…

Welcome Joe! Glad your here!!

Welcome, you’re in good company, if I quit buying kits right now (at 64) I MIGHT have a chance, but that’s not going to happen!!

Not discounting anyone’s frustration with hotels, let’s look at the numbers. Jeff said the Hilton had 150 rooms in the block, 130 were available as of midnight Friday, last year there were around 800 registered for the convention, I can believe 200-250 people were chomping on the bit at noon to reserve a room at the Hilton, it just wasn’t going to work out for everyone at the Hilton no matter what. Jeff reports there were people who called and bullied the reservation person, who only knows what is on the computer screen in front of them, and may or may not have access at the time to someone with more authority who “might” say no to them. This stuff has happened for years now and the options for changing it will not make everyone happy either, because in my opinion any of them will result in higher costs to go to the convention. And while that might be OK with some, it won’t be with others, so we are between a rock and a hard place, idiomatically speaking. I really don’t believe there will be a good solution to this without raising the cost to convention attendees, and honestly, if growing the society (more members) and the national convention (more attendees) is the goal, and that has been the stated goal of the current e-board, then higher costs are inevitable and unavoidable. So, do we slowly pull the bandage off, and endure the pain for awhile? Or rip it off and hopefully get over it quicker? Seems either way there will be pain. Good for Madison that they contracted with other hotels, and from what Jeff says there are still room blocks they will open in phases. So yeah, sounds like the convention is as popular as ever, and makes a good case for IPMS to seriously consider changing that bandage one way or the other.

I build armor, I wouldn’t need Future or a substitute for anything but clear parts, but honestly I’ve never found anything that works better to give clear parts a crystal clear look, it’s very thin, self leveling and has a little “working” time. I would be very interested in something else with the same properties.

I appreciate Doug joining the conversation here, although I see it differently. 1- The problem I see is there has not been constructive conversation on Facebook about these issues, something is posted and it is a dogpile of fire starters and pot stirrers, the few that tried to add thoughtful comments were basically shouted down, insulted and/or bullied, so they left, leaving it to the mob. This forum is not a smoke-filled back room, it is available to all members, the society has a constitution and by-laws, that basically dictates how members will operate while they are IPMS members, I realize in this day and age people might think everything should be open to everyone, especially on social media, that is not reality. I see no problem with requiring people to go to a members forum to discuss member issues. By looking at the comments on Facebook posts, IPMS related or not, there are plenty of people that would not be missed if they did not engage. If anyone thinks backroom conversations do not go on, or they can or have been stopped, they are fooling themselves. 2 - That’s not the assumption I have heard from anyone I know, it is that non-members should not be the driving force behind knee-jerk reactions and major changes to the society, and that is what I believe is happening. By your math 130 of the 13K people that follow the IPMS Facebook page are responsible for almost all of the activity on issues, and I don’t believe that all of them are IPMS members, being generous I would say 80 of them are, so do I understand correctly that less then 1% of the membership should be driving the decisions for major change? 3 - In my opinion IPMS is not responsible for growing the hobby, and it HAS and continues to be more inclusive and welcoming, it will never be what every last person wants, or do exactly what everyone wants, and it should not have too, or even try. It should be common knowledge that you can not make everyone happy all the time. What part of membership is confusing, to be a member you need to join, and for IPMS that means a membership fee, I belong to two different chapters, they do not allow me to keep being a member without paying the club membership fee, no doors are locked, you just need to join and be a member. 4 - I disagree, the problem is where, and the tactics used to turn them into a supposed controversy. Now we have any and all complaints, valid or not, understandable or not, made out as an outrage on Facebook to rile up the mob. Case in point, a picture was posted two days ago of someone (judge?) at a contest in Spain HOLDING UP a model at eye level with one hand and using a flashlight with the other to look at it. So far it has 4-5 likes and one post, and no pitchfork and torch welding mob of angry people have turned it into a controversy, or even a joke. As for attacking the complaint, they opened themselves up to criticism, good or bad, by choosing facebook to air their grievances and should have known that.

These are excellent ideas! If it’s not directly model related then don’t approve it. I would also suggest for announcements don’t allow comments, if a member wants to comment they can do so here, on the member forum.

I recently left/stopped following two FB pages, the drama dropped by 85%, unfortunately the remainder is from the IPMS/USA page, and for me it may go too. It may be too late to put the genie back in the bottle with the IPMS/USA page, I don’t know, and Eric is right, manually checking member numbers would be too much, there may be an automated way, but IPMS wouldn’t pay what it probably cost. And besides, the current e-board is using the non-members to their advantage, so I would doubt anything would happen until they are gone. And that is the rub, any changes the current board makes can be reversed and/or changed by the next one, and if IPMS survives there will be a next one, and one after that. Apparently history is not their strong point.

I also wonder what happened to the two separate surveys that were sent to actual IPMS Members BEFORE San Marcos asking for feedback on IPMS and the Convention, I filled them out, there has been nothing about the results of those. Could it be the results were not what was wanted?

I think it matters if the complaints came from IPMS Members or not, 13,000 people belong to the IPMS/USA Facebook page, yet we have less then 5000 members, so 7000+ non-members are complaining? And IPMS should change the society for them? With no indication they will join and help with the changes? If there were plenty of emails and phone calls from members maybe the e-board could practice some of the transparency the NCC was accused of not having and prove how many, is it hundreds? Thousands? Less then a hundred? I doubt it was that many, compared to the membership, if it was then prove it.

You are probably right, the two systems could co-exist in some form, that has been proposed and rejected. I highly doubt the standard would be set high enough to chance that grades(G-S-B) or awards (1-2-3) would not be given out though. And you are partially right that nothing will please some people, but it’s not the majority that have done the complaining in the first place, keep in mind that about 15% of the membership voted in the changes to the constitution that’s allowing the e-board to make these changes, no where near a majority. Very true words!

I haven’t seen anything against San Marcos, as for the judging those types of things have happened at every national, I remember two different years where a judge was asked to leave during judging for improper actions, once the person was banned from judging for life. The only difference is before now those issues were addressed and handled in-house, if you want to blame someone for the current drama it would be the people that thought facebook was the place to air their grievances, justified or not, and stir up the keyboard warriors to create drama and outrage.

I agree, the way the people who have volunteered hundreds of hours of their own time (and money) over the years to make IPMS what it is today, and they were involved in a lot more then just the contest, are being treated is disgraceful. The groveling to the Facebook pot-stirring non-members by this e-board is pitiful, and using that to justify an agenda of change has never worked out in anyone’s history. In my opinion they will learn that those same “allies” they are pandering too will turn on them at the first opportunity. I hope that IPMS can survive this chapter, maybe when a completely different group of people are elected to the e-board, I guess time will tell. To anyone I’ve worked with judging over the past 32 years, thank you for all your hard work and dedication!! I for one appreciate it!! My advice to anyone who continues to judge, please be aware that you could be photographed at anyone’s whim, whether you did anything wrong or not, and used to further an agenda, so proceed at your own risk. There was a time I put up with this sort of disrespect and drama, but someone else was paying me a lot of money to do so, not the case anymore.

29 of 30, also remember when you could buy models, glue and paint at 7/11, at least in my town. If the last one is talking about balsa models then I remember that too.

I’d include the photo with it if I entered it!

The flashlight on a phone isn’t t that great for looking at models, it’s a very wide beam and washes details out more than anything.

I wouldn’t be glad yet, this will take a while to shake out. A lot of complaints about the NCC not being transparent bla, bla, bla, but no one, including the e-board bothers to ask the core group of judges for their opinions. There are less then 250 people who have judged for more then 3 years on the judging roster, and far less then that show up regularly at the nationals. While the head judges/assistants are very busy herding cats/refereeing disagreements/paperwork/etc. and deserve our THANKS! they don’t DO the judging. Depending on how this ends up let’s hope that not too many will decide it’s not worth the drama.

From Phoenix, in Waco today, San Marcos tomorrow.

Maybe it wouldn’t happen with ships, or aircraft, but there are restrictions on figures in armor because of the entry that would have 15+ figures on top of it so you can’t see the top of the vehicle. Same with the rule that nothing on the base can be higher then the model, came about because of the entry with a canopy of trees over the model, or the vehicle on a street with two story buildings on both sides, makes it impossible to just judge the model when you can’t see it. I understand the intent (I was there when it was coming up as an issue) I think it is a little ridged, “nothing on the base can block the judges view of the model” or something like it might be more appropriate and avoid kicking an entry into vignette/dios for something on a base that is non obstructive to the judges when the modeler didn’t want it there anyway. Great to see this rewrite, sorry I don’t know enough about ships to really add/critique anything, but kudos to Ed for asking the membership (and your senior judges) for suggestions and ideas!

For historical info, I’ve judged armor since ‘95, diorama categories used to be within the major categories they fit in, Armor dio category in Armor, Aircraft dio category in Aircraft, etc. I can remember judging dios at Columbus in ‘97, I don’t remember when it was changed to a stand alone category. I can not fully explain the reasoning but I do know in armor we end up moving a good number of entries from other armor categories into the dio category due to these rules; E. Bases – in General. Bases will be allowed in all categories and will not be considered in the judging, except in Small/Large Composition (vignette/diorama) categories. A base may be a piece of undecorated wood, plastic or glass or it may simulate the natural surface on which the prototype would be found. However, nothing other than that basic surface may be used. Aircraft and military vehicles may rest on simulated ground or paving, and aircraft that need beaching gear or dollies may be so equipped. Ships may be displayed in water (no dry docks). The base must not be the predominant feature of the entry and must be of a size proportionate to the model. The Contest Chairman and Judges reserve the right to exclude oversize bases. The model may include primary crew figures. (See Rule IV-3B for limits for Military Vehicles.) The addition of any other figures or equipment outside or not attached to the model (e.g., support equipment, shell splashes, or buildings) will make the model a vignette or diorama, which must then be entered in the proper diorama category. (See Rule IV-1D.) So, if you want to compete in a single-subject category, don’t make a Vignette to see how far you can push the boundary! B. Bases – Military Vehicles. Any AFV model that is displayed upon a base may have ‘basic’ groundwork; e.g., dirt, grass, roadway, a low stone wall, etc. No part of that groundwork may extend taller than the topmost portion of the body of the model; i.e., no trees, buildings, structure, chimney, water-tower etc. Any vehicle entry that has more than basic groundwork will be defined as a vignette (see Rule IV-1D) and will be transferred to the appropriate category for judging there. Any model entered into an AFV category that is displayed upon a base, permanently or temporarily, may have no more than two (2) figures in total and the figure(s) must be a crew member; only one (1) figure may be affixed to the base off the vehicle; a second figure must be affixed to or within the vehicle model. If there are more than two figures total, the entry will be defined as a vignette, and will be transferred to the appropriate category for judging there. That puts a strain on the dio judges as there never seems to be many volunteers to judge that as a stand alone category. I imagine this change was in part due to the reality over the last few contests of the lack of judges to do the job. I don’t see this as bad for dio modeler’s, judges will follow the rules and having an armor dio judged by armor judges and aircraft dios judged by aircraft judges seems like a plus to me. If it doesn’t work I imagine a change in the future.

In no way do I blame Len’s team or the hotel, it looks like they both did what they could, kudos to them! There was no way everyone that wanted to was going to be able to stay at the Embassy, good on the San Marcos team for having 3 overflow hotels with a convention rate. And there are not many if any hotel booking sites that would not of at least had minor issues when hundreds of people log on at the same time. I think it’s great that the IPMS Nationals has grown to be so popular it draws so many people, and regularly gets 2500-3000 models on display at the contest!!

It’s my understanding the hotel has 283 rooms total, the block was 260, as Nick pointed out there were over 800 IPMS member at Omaha last year, it’s no wonder it sold out in minutes, there are no more rooms to add to the block between 8/2 and 8/6 no matter how much we or the hosts want too. One thing that does happen every year is a percentage of people cancel, is the hotel agreeable to a waiting list, and rebooking rooms in the block at the convention rate? Seems it is past time the convention looks into moving into a higher “event” category so it can book larger venues (sorry for the redundancy if this is already under consideration), which means charging more, rooms costing more and maybe less profit. I for one am fine with that, the Nats are the, if not one of the cheapest multi day hobby conventions going.