Time for a Name Change?

[PaulBradley]

Just throwing this out there for views and opinions, as I've seen this brought up about IPMS/UK. 

As our hobby has evolved over the 60 years since IPMS/USA was formed, the kits and models that we build are not always made, or even mainly made, of plastic. We have resin models, white metal models, etched metal models, even paper models, and all are entered in our contests. Phil P shared photos of what looked like a very cool table of paper models at the Nationals. Even most plastic kits we buy today have parts other than plastic in them, very much mixed-media in their composition. 

Is is time to re-think our Society's name to reflect the change? Should we become the International Scale Modelers' Society? 

Edited November 16, 2024 by PaulBradley

[ghodges]

I'll continue to vote NO on that idea.... and I do NOT advocate "dismissing" nor "demeaning" those who like to dabble in non-plastic modeling. However.... we're STILL primarily a group that builds plastic models and THAT should be our target audience going forward.

As a practical example of the possible consequences of your suggestion (and another reason why I'm against it) I think it would be a mistake if the Nats were to pay for awards for a "paper models" category before FISRT paying to expand and pay for more PLASTIC categories.

Let the others form their own Societies that target their own paper, metal, or whatever else they prefer to build with and God bless them and their efforts. They can belong to IPMS just and IPMSers can belong to whatever they establish. Just because they are a small group within us doesn't mean WE need to change or cater to them.

 

Gil 

 

[Nick Filippone]

At last- something Gil and I can agree on! We absolutely should not change our name! Our “name recognition” is vital and valuable. Change the name and in a short time people will wonder what happened to IPMS. 
Additionally, the Oxford Dictionary also defines “plastic” as anything that can be shaped or molded. That would include metal, resin, paper and wood. We’ve already got all the media we see at our shows covered, therefore, with our present name. So no need to change. Nick Filippone 

[BWScholten]

Solid NO from me.

The I stands for International, so you'd have to get all the other groups to agree to the change.  Good luck with that.

Edited November 18, 2024 by BWScholten

[noelsmith]

Changing the name from IPMS to ISMS (International Scale Modellers Society) has been suggested and debated over quite a number of times in the past over here in the UK.

As Bob Dylan sang 'The Times They Are A Changing ! '    Yes they are!   Kits have changed out of all recognition since I started modelling way back in the 50's as a kid.

IPMS world wide is recognised generally as the premier static scale modelling society in existence, and as long as it evolves to embrace the new technologies and materials used in kits there seems little point in altering the name in any way.

The footnote on our UK magazine is IPMS The Society For Scale Modellers.      Sort of sums up where we are does it not?

 

 

[ghodges]

Sorry.... but NO..... to repeat my closing statement above.....

Let the others form their own Societies that target their own paper, metal, or whatever else they prefer to build with and God bless them and their efforts. They can also belong to IPMS if they like to support US and IPMSers can belong to whatever they establish to support them. Just because they are a small group within us doesn't mean WE need to change or cater to them.

We are who we are.... a group dedicated to building PLASTIC models. I neither see the need, nor feel the urge to "diversify" nor to try to please anyone else just so they can feel "included".

 

Gil 

Edited January 5, 2025 by ghodges

[Nick Filippone]

Given the difficulties navigating our website and the Internet that some of our members seem to encounter (at least as confessed to on this Forum) trying to find IPMS information, how much more confused will changing the name and the acronym make them? Nick

[Highlander]

I agree with Paul's sentiment.  If we are going to be a "all models for all people using all media" then "plastic" is not an accurate description of the Society.

However.

I was there when paper first showed up.  The entrant wanted to know where he could enter his paper, pre-colored, pre-printed masterpieces.  Our club had a hurried conclave and, with me against it, the paper maker was allowed to enter in whatever category that he wanted to.  The winning argument was that he had come so far and tried so hard and was a good all-round guy, so we oughta let him enter.  Judging was a nightmare ... plastic against paper.  Where the paper entries met none of the IPMS judging criteria.

He wanted to know why he hadn't won.

Now paper is common.  As are snap together Gundam and other plastic thingys.  My voice is in the minority, but I feel that we should be a plastic modeling society -- maintaining our adjustments with vacuform and resin.  I don't resonate with the "we need the entry fees" point of view.  Or the "we need to be inclusive, not matter what is entered" argument.

My point of view is not a fall on my sword position.  I just ignore the paper and the pre-painted stuff.

[Nick Filippone]

David’s post betrays a certain commonly held contempt for paper models because they are pre- coloured and pre- printed. As a life long (70 years) plastic modeler, I have tried my hand at paper or card modeling. It is very difficult to produce even a mediocre result. An excellent result- which I was never able to achieve- in my opinion, (having judged both plastic and paper models) represents a skill set and degree of patience at least equal to that demonstrated by most plastic modelers and, again, in my opinion, in fact, superior to most plastic modelers. In short, it is frustratingly hard to build a good paper model!  But it is satisfying and enjoyable! 

Whether or not paper models should be admitted to our contests- and I contend that they should, with their own categories- it is unfair and narrow- minded to disparage them as “stuff.” Paper modeling is an ancient craft, centuries older than plastic modeling. I encourage you to try one and see if you would show your first effort to any judge (or anyone). Good luck. 

Nick Filippone, Senior (30 year) National Judge

 

 

 

 

[Ron Bell]

I believe it was Oklahoma City that used one of their discretionary categories for paper models. (One of the others was for photographs of models I think.) The category was used for a few years, but the number of entries did not justify it's continuance. That being said, I concur with Nick's opinion of the level of difficulty in making a good, contest worthy paper model. If you've never seen m/any paper models, take a peak here, scroll down and prepare to be amazed. :https://www.worldofpaperships.nl/Downloads/Paper ship models - by David Sakrison - pages 155-166 (003).pdf

Edited January 8, 2025 by Ron Bell

[Dick Montgomery]

"Amazed" is not the word I'd use to describe these fantastic models!

 

[ghodges]

Let's not "twist" the topic nor lose sight of the real discussion.....

This NOT about whether paper modeling (or ANY other modeling medium) is more difficult or not, or their "worthiness" in any way; including in comparison to plastic modeling.

This about whether or not IPMS, as a PLASTIC model building society, is going to go the DEI route and try to please everyone else, whether it be for hoped increase membership numbers and thus income growth, or just because it seems "nice" to do so.

I'll stand by my personal position that we have no need to try to please everyone and that they should compete with THEIR OWN groups. The judging headaches it would bring are also something we don't need to add to an already burdened judging night at the Nats as is.

If the Eboard can present concrete evidence for increased membership and revenue from other modeling medium types (be they X, Y, or Z); then let them make that economics argument to the membership at large and then hold a vote on it. But to do so for the sake of some "philosophical brotherhood" between plastic modeling and the rest doesn't cut it in my book.

 

Gil 

 

Edited January 11, 2025 by ghodges

[Nick Filippone]

Unless one thought there was some educational value in “diverse” modelers exchanging ideas and techniques with each other. 

Nick Filippone, Senior (30 year) National Judge

 

 

[noelsmith]

The footnote on our IPMS UK Magazine cover says  'IPMS The Society For Scale Modellers' 

Gil's view is that the society should stick (excuse the pun) with plastic. Whilst I respect his personal view I do not actually agree with it.

Reason being that a good accurate static (I emphasise static) scale model can be built from many different mediums other than plastic.

Using white metal car and figure models for example, in essence the construction process is not really any different to building a plastic model kit.

Clean up and removal of seams from parts has  be done. The adhesives might be different but construction is very similar.

What about 3D printed stuff and cast resin? Are they technically classed as plastics?   Multi medium kits could consist of various hybrid mixes of plastics, resin. 3D printed, white metal and photo etched these days.

Those highly detailed MFH multi medium car kits are a good example that can have a variety resin, white metal, photo etched and machined metal wire wheels to fit individual spokes to.

Do they get disqualified as not being simply made from plastic?  I have done some scratch building of some classic cars using whatever material whether plastic, metal, card, wood, that lends itself best to what I am trying to achieve accurately in scale.

I have been a UK member since 1974 when plastic predominated and seen a lot of changes. However, things have moved on exponentially since the 'old days' when I joined.  IPMS needs to reflect this with the emphasis being on good static scale models and not necessarily be hidebound to plastic.  I feel that the emphasis now should be on scale rather than plastic and am pleased that the UK IPMS is showing a bit more latitude with regard to this.

Edited January 11, 2025 by noelsmith

[Ron Bell]

We are already a society that embraces many media in our hobby. The only thing that hasn't changed in that respect is our name. 

[ghodges]

Noel (and all).... the footnote you listed from IPMS UK is a very elegant solution that sounds like a nearly perfect compromise for those who want us to show we're inclusive, and those who want to traditionally embrace our plastic kit roots and not change our name. It would also keep in our tradition of borrowing from IPMS UK from the very beginning!

As for the complications to judging and such..... after doing my 25yrs "in the barrel" and now having retired from that, I'll let the current judges tackle those issues.

Will such an embrace of diversity bring the spread of techniques and the greater appreciation of the other mediums in IPMSUSA that NIck suggests and hopes for? Unlike him, I'm doubtful..... after all, our airplane and tank builders don't read the car and sci-fi articles (and vice-versa) in the Journal for the most part because it's not what THEY are interested in. It's human nature to stick to what you like and peaks your own personal interest (which is also why AMPS, Automotive Nationals, and Wonderfest exist specifically targeting those groups). 

But I could be wrong...... after all I'm a married man and don't know what my wife thinks about all of this!  😁

 

Gil 

Edited January 11, 2025 by ghodges

[noelsmith]

Probably much the same as I am guessing my wife might think of all this Gill.   Not a lot !    Lol.

[Highlander]

A common technique, when facing a decision among alternatives that tend to the mutually exclusive, is to drive each argument to its logical extreme.   In our case that would be a decision to have a society that is exclusively plastic or a society that is exclusively anything.  In the former case, the models that are acceptable to the society would need to be plastic and plastic only -- in short, an absolute restriction.  In the latter, the models that are acceptable to the society could be anything that anybody labels a "model" -- in short, no restriction whatsoever.

I repeat -- arguments taken to the logical extreme.  By examining the extremes, one can better evaluate the current situation and then consider where a future situation might best be.

IPMS is not a a pure plastic society.  And "anything goes" is not acceptable ... yet.  I offer that IPMS is currently a mostly plastic model society. I also offer that IPMS, or, perhaps, ISMS, has been moving along the pure/anything continuum by increasingly relaxing the plastic standard.  I observe that IPMS is now somewhere on the continuum where models that contain no plastic are quite acceptable.  Paper has been mentioned.  Gundams can be plastic but can also be snapped together and unpainted.  Let me point out that Figures, where I hang my hat, have been a longstanding IPMS category commonly containing no plastic --  and requiring no construction.

How far along the continuum to "anything goes" does IPMS want to travel?  It seems that some voices feel that we haven't moved far enough.  Arguments have been offered that some non-plastic efforts are difficult, requiring skill and technique.   And, since the final result ends up looking quite spiffy, there should be a place for it in IPMS -- or ISMS -- or whatever.

As stated earlier, I won't fall on my sword wherever along the continuum IPMS ends up.  I am one with no interest in paper or pre-assembled or pre-painted models and don't care if I am pilloried for my lack of interest.  I 'll pay attention to the mostly plastic models and ignore the rest.  Whatever the Society is named.

I do wonder when 3D printing will reach the point where one can buy the requisite plastic, liquid or powder grains, push the button, and create a model indistinguishable from the best product currently available.  Or better -- no seam lines, no misalignment, angles accurate to the tenth of a degree, every rivet and handle perfect, and all surfaces thinned to scale.  And I wonder how long it will take for technology to paint models, to include shading and weathering and chipping.  I doubt the date will be far off.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2025 by Highlander

[noelsmith]

Not sure that 3D printing will ever reach the level you speculate that it will David. It certainly has gone a long way with regard to definition, but as for eventually making fully coloured models with all those subtle nuances in colour done with brush and airbrush ? Cannot see it ever going that far.

The society is gradually being dragged (regardless of any kicking and screaming by many old diehards) relentlessly into a new age where multi medium static scale model kits will be the norm. It's just evolution really. Some of us of a certain age can remember the very early days when plastic kits started to come onto the modelling scene, and this new medium consigned those old solid wood kits that had to be shaped and sanded to oblivion. 'Making plastic kits is not real model making!' That was the cry back then. Plastic being considered the interloper. 

That is until a few guys in London back in 1963, met up in a pub named The Porcupine to form the fledgling IPMS that started life as the British Plastic Modelling Society to promote taking plastic as a modelling medium more seriously.

Well, things have certainly moved on a bit since then, and we see that static modelling has now arrived at something of a juncture with regard to the paths the industry is taking making kits using various materials other than plastic.

The society as I see it will adapt to suit.    It will inevitably have to.