Hasegawa 1/16 Sopwith Camel

[StuartMont]

So I tore my rotator cuff playing pickle ball and am currently rehabbing from the surgery. After months of not being able to build models it’s time to start up again.  Family and friends pooled together and bought me this one as a get better gift and because they got tired of me complaining about rigging the 1/32 and 1/48 biplanes I have built. 😀

I know I said no more large scale planes but I am excited to build this one. Here is what I have completed so far, my usual “please help me” questions are embedded.  I hope you don’t mind me sharing the build progress of this one.

The rigging of the control cables was interesting but the cord supplied with the model is quite difficult to deal with, it curls and unwinds very easily.  The next step is to mount the floorboard to the fuselage with all of the cables in front of and behind the floorboard hanging loose.  Any thoughts on how to “manage” these during this stage of assembly?  Also, I think my Tamiya clear orange paint must be kaput, it did not go over the wood brown paint very well, you’ll see if you zoom in on that one.  The instrument panel gets painted the same way, wood brown under clear orange.

The engine went together very well.  I researched the Clerget 9b engines on the internet and was frustrated by all of the different colors I saw.  Therefore I decided to stick with the colors in the kit instructions, a mixture of silver, steel and gold.  The ignition wires took me some time but once I figured out the best method (for me) they went pretty well.  You can see  my trimming isn’t great but I was worried I would cut something I didn’t want to.

This model includes plated parts and the plating must be removed from the cemented surfaces.  I learned the hard way that I have to wear gloves when working with these pieces or my fingerprints will be all over them.  You can see the marks all over the fuel tank that are my doing. The tape you see at the bottom was used to hold the straps in place while I glued them.  How do you guys work with the seams on these plated parts?  I don’t think I have a paint that will perfectly match the finish.  

As usual, I would love to hear (and would greatly appreciate) critical comments and suggestions. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by StuartMont

[ghodges]

Snaking your cables through their respective fuselage holes and then taping them to the fuselage to keep them out off the way til later is the only idea that comes to mind for them. The engine looks fabulous as is IMO. As for the plated parts, if their seams aren't going to be directly visible (like that gas tank?) then I'd just glue it together carefully and avoid fingerprints and glue runs. On any assemblies where the plated seams are visible, I sand the seams like normal, polish them, prime the entire part in gloss black and then use Alclad Chrome or Polished Aluminum in place of the kit plating. Hope this helps!

 

Gil 

[Jmarc]

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCOOL !

[Ron Bell]

i usually strip the plating off the parts then treat the seams normally. Then I re-coat the parts with a suitable metalizer. 

[StuartMont]

23 hours ago, ghodges said:

prime the entire part in gloss black

Thanks Gil, I don’t think I could do those ignition wires on something 1/2 the size of this model. And, your responses are always helpful. I assume I need a different kind of primer that would adhere to the plating?

[StuartMont]

20 hours ago, Ron Bell said:

usually strip the plating off the parts then treat the seams normally.

Hi Ron, thanks for responding. Can you explain why you remove the plating?

[StuartMont]

22 hours ago, Jmarc said:

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCOOL !

Thanks Jean-Marc. 

[ghodges]

In my experience the kit plating is just a metallic paint that was factory applied so that the builder could skip painting it themselves. It should accept paint over it like putting paint over any other painted surface. That said, since some paints can interact, it would be wise to test whatever gloss black you choose to use on a plated area that will not be seen and could be "sacrificed" or hidden if things went wrong.

My main point is that unlike most modelers who take the extra time and steps to strip off kit chrome or other plating types; I don't. I just assemble it, sand seams and remove mold lines, polish it so it has a glass smooth surface, and then prime the entire part in the gloss black. I've found that to be enough for my purposes.... but you may not.

 

Gil 

[Ron Bell]

15 hours ago, StuartMont said:

Hi Ron, thanks for responding. Can you explain why you remove the plating?

If I keep the plating on and fill, file or sand the seam and/or sprue attachment points smooth, the plating gets damaged and cannot be matched for a repair. If I remove all the plating I can treat these things normally. I primer it to blend the fix in with the plastic and then use a metalizing system like Alclad or the old Testers Metalizers. (There are almost too many to name nowadays.) This way the seam is hidden and all the metal finish matches. Usually the plating on kit parts will come off with just a soaking in household ammonia. Some parts take a day or so, but a quick scrub with an old toothbrush does the trick. Under that plating there could be a coat of clear lacquer. It's put on by the manufacturer to ensure a completely smooth surface for the plating. Don't worry about removing that. You're going to prime over it and then probably have to add some sort of base coat for the new metalizer anyway.  

[StuartMont]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:13 PM, ghodges said:

It should accept paint over it like putting paint over any other painted surface.

Thanks for the clarification Gil. I see the “philosophical” differences in the two responses to my question about treating seams with plated parts. There is only one more plated assembly with this model and it will be exposed so decision necessary soon.

Your willingness to assist with my needy modeling is very much appreciated!!

[StuartMont]

On 11/18/2023 at 7:08 AM, Ron Bell said:

If I remove all the plating I can treat these things normally.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your take on this issue Ron. As I explained to Gil I will have one more opportunity with a plated assembly with this model.  The specifics regarding an easy method to remove the plating is appreciated.

Passing on your significant knowledge of modeling sure helps this old novice.

[StuartMont]

I wanted to post some progress photos of this large model.  I have most of the control cables tied on the control column, elevator and rudder.  The upper and lower wing assemblies are done and the tension cables tied. You will be spared my typical "apologies" for quality problems here - they will be seen easy enough - just know that it comes from comparison to the beautiful masterpieces typically highlighted on this forum.  It seems important to note however, that since I do not compete, I decided not to paint the framing sand yellow.  It looks enough like wood to me 😀.  Critical comments are always greatly appreciated.

[ghodges]

Nice progress, and that interior could pass for pics of a museum restoration underway!

 

Gil 

[StuartMont]

Thanks very much Gil, that really means a lot. I like that the control column actually moves the elevator, benefits of the scale. The footboard controls the rudder if you could actually get to it 😀

[Jmarc]

NNNNNNNNNNNNeat !

[StuartMont]

Thanks very much Jean-Marc!

[StuartMont]

So I’ve run into a problem that I’m hoping someone can help me with. The instructions have you tie all the main wing tension cables, and the next step has you install the machine guns. As you can see on the instructions to install pieces J3 and J4 the tension cables cross very close to the top of the fuselage.  Geometrically, this is the only way it works. These two pieces took me an incredible amount of time to get in place, but I finally did. Unfortunately, when I tried to put in the machine guns, I noticed that the tension cables are “warped” by the machine guns. In other words, the cables cross too close to the fuselage. Obviously this isn’t right. So I looked around and I found on the painting diagram that these pieces have to be placed well above the windscreen so that J3 and J4 don’t hit the windscreen. This will also move the cables above the guns. I managed to remove those two pieces. Now I have to find a way to lift the point where the tension cables intersect, hold it there and then install J3 and J4. Does anybody have any ideas on how I might do this?  I tried to highlight the problem in the first three photographs attached below.  The fourth photo shows that the cable is flexible enough to do this.  I’m a structural engineer and I’m stumped ☹️

[ghodges]

I'm no structural engineer...... but having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...... I see 2 choices depending on accuracy/practicality...

1) If you insist on using those original anchor points, then use a very fine line to tie up (to the top wing) that center section crossing into the position you're holding it with the stick, glue J3/J4 in place to cement that center crossing in that position and then cut the line, and live with the asymmetrical "x' that's left in place over the guns.

2) Abandon the lower anchor points on the fuselage and move them to a point on each forward cabane strut that's high enough to clear the guns. That way you'll have your proper "X" crossing over them, even if they tie into an inaccurate anchor point.

Personally, I'd choose #2 making for the best appearance, and the inaccuracy wouldn't be noticed by anyone but you, IF you can live with that. Hope this helps!

 

Gil 

[StuartMont]

Excellent suggestions Gil. I actually deleted a post of mine that I was writing at the same time you were writing your response.  I’m very intrigued by the idea of just moving the attachment points.  Being a structural engineer, I am also quite a worry wart. The idea of cutting the cables worries me. The way the instructions worked these lines were 800 mm long. Obviously, I’ll have to hold them in place before I cut them. We’ve done this kind of thing on real bridges before.  I also worry about accuracy. I also worry that I wouldn’t have enough slack to reattach at the new points.  
 

Again, excellent suggestions, your Holiday Inn stay was very well accomplished.

Edited January 7 by StuartMont
Added a worry

[ghodges]

Again... speaking as a layman and not an engineer, I think you have 3 things in your favor:

1) Those cables aren't really needed for structural integrity on the model, unlike the plane, so their anchor points do no have to be on a part of the "superstructure"/supporting frame.

2) It appears they have some stretch or elasticity to them, meaning you may still be able to use them being slightly on the short side (if they indeed are).

3) Moving them back a bit towards those cabane struts may actually shorten the needed distances and solve that problem for you.

In any case.... for models, it's "oddities" that catch my eye, and an asymmetrical "X" above those guns might draw my eye to it, as opposed to the normal looking wire crossings that may be slightly higher and rearward than the plans called for. Best of luck with whatever solution you come up with!

 

Gil 

[Ron Bell]

Here are two photos of the Camel at the Air and Space Museum. It looks like that little airfoil thing actually holds the wires in such a position that they clear the guns. Perhaps bind the two wires at the necessary point (super glue? wire? tie?) and then put that piece over it.

 

[StuartMont]

Gil and Ron - thanks so much for responding and for taking your time to look at some things to help me out. I wasn’t worried that the model would suffer from cutting the cables, it’s really very stout with no cables. Rather, with my luck they would spring back enough to pull through the hinge point and I’d have to wrangle them back in 😀. Now that I see what’s up on the real thing, and I do want the accuracy, I’m going to go with Gil’s first suggestion. I have some very fine wire that will work great to pull it up and hold it. From there the strenuous 20 minutes to get those two pieces in place starts again 🥴. I think the wire may help that problem though. I read the review of this model from 2013 and this was not brought up. I’m sure that expert builder knew how it looked in the real thing beforehand and planned the rigging accordingly. Maybe I’ll get there someday if I live long enough😀😀

Please allow me to thank you two again for your very patient responses. A little bit of planning would avoid these silly mistakes on my part. I’ve got another problem of my doing coming in a separate post, yikes. 
 

Stuart
 

[ghodges]

Once more, I learned something today... GREAT pic Ron!

 

Gil 

[StuartMont]

I used Gil's suggestion and used a wire to pull the intersection up as high as it would go.  As you can see it's not perfect.  The tension cable on the left side clears the machine gun.  Unfortunately the other side slightly drapes over the other gun.  So it's not perfectly centered which happened as I struggled with J3 and J4.  It just kept slipping.  However, I'm happy because the "fixture" is above the windscreen now and I'm certain that once the cowling, engine and propeller are in place it will not be terribly obvious.  Thanks for the suggestions and details about historical accuracy guys.

Now, in my continuing effort to highlight mistakes on my part.  I can only assume that when I tied the tension cables on the tail and rudder, the fuselage warped only slightly but enough to make it painfully obvious once I installed the wings.  This photo shows that the one side sits about 1 mm above the other when propped on a level surface:

This model is going to sit in my workshop only so perhaps trying to fix this is a waste of time.   If it is a result of tying the tension cables I could certainly remove and redo those I think.  If I was doing some kind of diorama I could probably hide some kind of anchor pulling that side down to the surface but this is 1/16 scale and I cannot find any WWI British pilots/RAF figures at that scale.  In any case, I would love to hear any suggestions for possible fixes.

This is a really cool model.  The scale has allowed me to tie all of the tension and control cables and that part of it looks awesome to me.  Not all of the controls function as advertised but no one is going to play with it.  The problems with this one are my doing, I have had no issues putting the model together.  As soon as I figure out how to take good pictures of the whole thing I will post some more progress photos.

Thanks for looking.

Stuart

[StuartMont]

Here are some progress photos, thanks for looking.  It seems that when I installed the stringer, the warp of the fuselage was somewhat improved.  Also, can someone tell me how the ground crews removed fuel tank covers? 😀  I used the high temperature tape to mask the windscreen as suggested by someone on this forum.  I'm very sorry I can't remember the name of this person but this stuff is great.  You can see through it making it very easy to follow along the frame and get a nice tight fit.  Not one drop of paint seeped under it and I think this might be the first time in my limited experience that I did not have to use a toothpick to scrape paint off of a clear part.

BTW, I went back to the 2013 review of this model and the photographs of the completed plane.  That reviewer simply placed the machine guns on top of the tension cables in front of the windscreen.  The only thing that means is that I do not feel as bad about missing it.  Thanks again to Gil and Ron for helping me with ideas to fix it and with historical accuracy.

I'm having surgery on my right hand on Thursday so it will be a few weeks before I can finish this thing.

Please let me know any comments, that's what I look forward to the most.  I am my own worst critic so nothing bothers me, I promise.