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Guest Chrgr440RT

Wash Help

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Guest Chrgr440RT

Okay guys. I know that I am not the sharpest crayon in the 64 pack, but I am at a block with something so simple. I am trying to use the Windsor and Newton water mixable artist oils for washes. What is the best way to do this? Just water and little bit of paint as usual or mix with another liquid (isopropyl, windex, detergent, ?) I jsut used water tonight and didn't get the results I was hoping for. Thanks

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For my washes I use tube oils, (Windsor Newton or similar) thinned with a lot of either Mineral spirit or Testor's enamel thinner. Obviously this must go over an acrylic base, either acrylic painit or Future over an enamel paint base. Washes with water as their base just never seem to work for me. They pool oddly. I have heard of folks using a drop of Windex or Dawn to help break surface tension, but it just never seems to work right for me.

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Guest Chrgr440RT

I normally use oils too, but the pickings are pretty slim over here in Korea. Plus I am pushing the line running my air compressor in the dorms spraying acrylics and future. Once i start using washes with paint thinner i will probably get a lot of people, um lets say ticked off. I usually use odorless mineral spirits, but the less flammable liquids I have in the dorm the better.

 

Thanks.

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Since I paint with MM enamels, I spray a clear glosscoat and use MM acrylics for washes. I use paint-water-dishsoap in a 2-5-3 ratio. Seems to work OK for me, and cleanup is easy...

 

While there are better tutorials out there, I did one for panel line washes on our website... http://mountainmodelers.org/main_tutorials.html

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I use tube watercolors. The pigment is very fine. I thin it with a mix of water and a dollop of acrylic brush cleaning liquid to break the surface tension. I don't apply it over paint, only over dull or gloss coat. That way it doesn't 'stain' the paint, but gathers in the recesses. What Dave said about pooling is true, but I get around that. With this mixture and putting it over the dull/gloss coats, you can use a damp brush to remove wash from where you don't want it. When you've got the effect you want, lock it all in with another coat of dull/gloss coat. Until you do this, its very forgiving, to the point of almost rubbing off. But that's why I like it, because if anyone's models needed forgiveness, its mine!

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I use tube watercolors. The pigment is very fine. I thin it with a mix of water and a dollop of acrylic brush cleaning liquid to break the surface tension. I don't apply it over paint, only over dull or gloss coat. That way it doesn't 'stain' the paint, but gathers in the recesses. What Dave said about pooling is true, but I get around that. With this mixture and putting it over the dull/gloss coats, you can use a damp brush to remove wash from where you don't want it. When you've got the effect you want, lock it all in with another coat of dull/gloss coat. Until you do this, its very forgiving, to the point of almost rubbing off. But that's why I like it, because if anyone's models needed forgiveness, its mine!

Ron,

You'll have to go to the Pope to get that level of forgiveness. :smiley15:

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Guest Chrgr440RT

Thanks for all the help. I always use a future undercoat. But the mix jsut doesn't pool like i hoped it would. The common theme I am seeing is dishwashing soap. I'm gonna try that on my next one. Thanks again.

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Interesting with the acrylics. I've tried those and had bad experiences. It seemed where ever they dried, they stayed, and that wasn't always good. Even with oils, I could remove them carefully with mineral spirits or whatever, but acrylics were down for good. It must either be the undercoat or that dishwashing fluid that makes them more 'movable'. Just make sure if you use them, that you do it just as was explained. Any other way and you may wind up with a splotchy model.

 

Oh and to Dave Knights, if you have an "in" at the Vatican, I may need it in the future.

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Interesting with the acrylics. I've tried those and had bad experiences. It seemed where ever they dried, they stayed, and that wasn't always good. Even with oils, I could remove them carefully with mineral spirits or whatever, but acrylics were down for good. It must either be the undercoat or that dishwashing fluid that makes them more 'movable'. Just make sure if you use them, that you do it just as was explained. Any other way and you may wind up with a splotchy model.

 

Oh and to Dave Knights, if you have an "in" at the Vatican, I may need it in the future.

Ron,

 

Would you like to purchase some indulgences?

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I wouldn't use Future as a base coat with acrylic washes. The wash might slightly dissolve the Future and become inbedded. This would make the wash nearly impossible to remove. Stick with either a lacquer or enamel base basecoat. Some people even paint with gloss enamels before using an acrylic wash.

 

-Jesse

 

Hmmmm, I will second Jesse's recommendation to not use Future as the base coat. However, not for the same reason. I've tested a number of solvents on top of Future and have had nothing attack the finish except alcohols and the more aggressive decal solutions like solvaset. If you leave water on it and the Future is not 100% dry, it will cloud up, but this is nothing another application of Future won't fix.

 

My reason for not using Future as the basecoat is that it can be too glossy and smooth to get the wash to stick where you want. I've encountered this problem myself, especially with water based washes. To remedy this, I have been applying a coat of dullcoat after the decals, then acrylic wash, then another coat of Future or dullcoat. Seems to work okay. I do lose some of the wash detail if I am heavy handed in spraying the Future.

 

All this being said, I've read the recommendations of oil washes and using Tamiya flat base to dull Future. I'm going to give it a shot. If it works, I could then get away from lacquer dullcoat altogether.

 

Hope this helps.

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Dave Knights,

Martin Luther took care of all that a long time ago.

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Dave Knights,

Martin Luther took care of all that a long time ago.

Only if you think he was right and the Pope was wrong. Why not hedge your bets and buy some indulgences, just to be safe. I have them very reasonably priced right now. I'll make it a two for one deal and throw in some carbon offset credits as well. You pay me now and I'll plant twice as much in my garden next spring. What a deal. :smiley20:

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Nope, it's correct! You can find WATER SOLUBLE "oil" colors along with the rest of the tube type oils in the art departments at Michaels, Hobby Lobby, and most any other well-stocked arts/crafts store. Be sure to mix a drop or two of liquid dish detergent into water/pigment mix. I've found that these types of washes come closest to having the same flow and color capacities as the reguar oil paint washes, without the odor and risk of using a solvent based wash. You can even do some nice special efects by applying them to flat paint surfaces, which will cause the color to spread out a bit instead of hugging the crevices, making for a nice stained effect. The other advantage is you can buy about 3-4 tubes (black/grey/burnt sienna/tan) and have just about any color wash you'll ever need, as well as having the ability to mix them easily and create any in-between shades. And, each tube should last your for years since you use just a dab of pigment at a time. I mix the wash in left over soda bottle caps, mix it up with a toothpick, and then apply with a fine pointed brush. Another advantage to the "ws oils" is (like their oily bretheren) you can set the cap aside for a couple of days, add a bit more water to it, reconstitute it, and apply it some more! I toss it when the model is completely done, no clean up, no fuss! Cheers!

 

GIL :smiley16:

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One logistical point with those tubes. Try to keep the threads clean. If not, the cap will become welded to the tube and be a pain to remove. (Experience talking here. I've had several twisted and ripped tubes as I tried to remove the dried on cap.) Try putting a little Vaseline on the threads the first time you open it. It will keep any residue from clinging to the parts.

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