Mark Aldrich Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) I got the Italeri (Academy) Achilles kit and started building the easy stuff last night. I am turning mine into a vehicle used by the IDF. It appears that the gunner was situated on the right side of the breech and a .30 cal was mounted through the old site unit. Academy does not provide anything resembling a gunners sight or sight unit. I am trying to find interior shots of either M10s, Achilles, or IDF Achilles or someone that knows where and what the gunner sighted with. Mark Edited December 6, 2010 by Mark Aldrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickC5 Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) Squadron/Signal "Walk Around U.S. Tank Destroyers" page 30, shows the M10 gun breech & gunner's position/sight. Gunner sat on the port side, and the M70G telescopic sight (for direct fire) is to the port side of the breech. There's an additional "panoramic artillery sight" (for indirect fire) on the starboard side of the breech, attached to the side of the turret. The top of the panoramic sight protrudes a few inches above the top of the turret, and is not attached to the gun mantlet. On the M36, pages 48 & 50, the gunner's & loader's positions are reversed, with BOTH sights located on the starboard side of the breech for use by the gunner (more logical, IMHO). Only a guess, but perhaps the IDF chose to use the M36 type of sight set-up, which would allow the .30 MG to fit on the port side of the breech. BTW, the M36 used a M76D telescopic sight, which looks significantly different than the M70G in the M10. Also, the artillery sight in both the M10 & M36 appears to be mounted for use by a spotter/commander rather than by the gunner, although the M36 gunner may be able to use both--difficult to say for sure from the photos. Edited July 11, 2010 by RickC5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted July 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 Rick, That helps on the Achilles. The instructions and parts seem to include the indirect sight but no direct site(gonna kit or scratch that). Need to find some interior Latrun Achilles photos. Appreciate that. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bell Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 This has little to do with your original post, but if you read some British internet sites, there seems to be some debate as to whether the Brits ever called this beast by the name "Achilles", at least during the war. Some sites maintain that the name was only applied post war. Its amazing the spirited debate it spurs on British sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickC5 Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 Rick, That helps on the Achilles. The instructions and parts seem to include the indirect sight but no direct site(gonna kit or scratch that). Need to find some interior Latrun Achilles photos. Appreciate that. Mark My Academy kit of the M10 does have a rudimentary M70G sight included, which I installed. However, the M70G is basically a tube, like a rifle scope and is totally different from the M76D, so unless an M76D is available from an aftermarket source, you'll likely have to scratchbuild one. Looks like you could easily cobble one together from scrap plastic bits & attach it to the starboard side of the breech in such a manner that it would look pretty realistic and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted July 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 (edited) As you can see by these two photos. The manlet has been changed to accomdate what I have said. I just wish I had some interior photos of the turret. I found a neat looking sight on a M-8 Grayhound I will probably use and a nice .30 with a mount I can add coaxially. Edited July 13, 2010 by Mark Aldrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickC5 Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Ok, so I'm waving the white flag on this one. I exhausted all my printed & internet resources today & pretty much all I found was the same photos of the IDF Achilles you found. Too bad you can't get someone to crawl up on that puppy & snap some photos. Since the Achilles uses the Brit 17 pdr rather than the US 3 inch main gun, somehow I doubt the Brits fitted it with the same scope(s) as the M10 or the M36, but they could have. They were quite proud of that 17 pdr (justifiably so), and I'll bet they also had some usable sights for it, just like the Firefly. Only an assumption 'cuz there's sure not much data available. Let us all know if you ever find a useful photo, or some other reference to the Achilles sight system. Good luck with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted July 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) Rick, Thanks for the help. I am gonna quite pulling my hair out also. The problems keep mounting the more I delve into it. If they moved the gunner, did they also move all the gunners controls? It just gets deeper and deeper. Got some parts from Howie Belkin yesterday and I am gonna spend the nest few days trying to get some casting done. Give this one a break for a bit! Mark Edited July 13, 2010 by Mark Aldrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bell Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 It's not Israeli, but have you seen these? www.toadmanstankpictures.com/ achilles.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickC5 Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 It's not Israeli, but have you seen these? www.toadmanstankpictures.com/ achilles.htm NICE find Ron! Some pretty good photos of the (incomplete) direct-fire sights and gunner's controls, all on the starboard side. Also some good photos of the .30 cal co-axial MG on the port side. I also noticed the indirect-fire sight was deleted. These ought to help Mark quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted July 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 OMG......That's why!!!! It isn't an Achilles the IDF used, it's an Achilles IIC! Ron, thanks a ton....posted this thread on three other boards and NO ONE answered. Thank you so much. Of course, that does mean I'll be moving all the stuff over to the right side! Gotta love finding stuff BEFORE you just wing it! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickC5 Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 Mark, Did you happen to notice in the toadman photos of the IIC that the .50 cal MG is mounted backwards in the cradle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted July 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 Rick, I caught that one but won't replicate it. Funny, these must be late model MkIIcs. The AFV Club lists their kit as a MkIIc and it looks nothing like this. Other than these photos, I have found nothing on the net or in books explaining if this was a British or French ceonversion. I know both countries supplied Israeli so I keep digging inbetween building. It will be fun switching everything around. The only true fear right now is drilling out the coax and gunner sight. I have to drill through a angled mantlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted August 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 So here are some parts I have had to convert. The sighting tube is too angled but I dare not try and straighten it anymore. Getting ready to lay on some interior paint. Because the Brits/French/Israeli's carried the ammo sans tubes, I am waiting for some Verlinden 17 pdr rounds to arrive and fill the hull sponsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted August 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 (edited) So here are the updates of my IDF Achilles... The Hull Before... And After.... The Bogies before... And After! Four Bolts added to the top skid Four bolts added to the return roller mount Four Holes drilled into the opposite side of the Bogie Edited August 29, 2010 by Mark Aldrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heck Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Looking good, Mark. Don't forget to redeem that CokeRewards bottle cap! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted August 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Those things are great for using as a super glue palette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 (edited) Labor Day weekend progress Most of the interior turret is done. I need to add some cabling and that should be it. Would love to trade out those 3in rounds for 17 pdrs though. However, not going to scratch the mounts or paay for a aftermarket set. Ladder (partial), storage rack and bumper stops for the engine doors. Edited September 7, 2010 by Mark Aldrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
802chrisg Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 This is taking shape very nicely. I love seeing your work. Really like to see AFV used by different countries. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Chris, Thanks. This was supposed to be a review build. I need to research more before volunteering and opening my big mouth. I thought it was going to be a simple, "throw on a few extra parts". Not the case. The turret and late model gun has made this more into a conversion and I feel bad about that. Hopefully John will forgive me. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
802chrisg Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Chris, Thanks. This was supposed to be a review build. I need to research more before volunteering and opening my big mouth. I thought it was going to be a simple, "throw on a few extra parts". Not the case. The turret and late model gun has made this more into a conversion and I feel bad about that. Hopefully John will forgive me. Mark Yes I did notice all the fine scratch building and add on's. Looks like a lot of work. Stick with it. This build is really looking good. After paint I will put money on it that this will really pop. I'll see if I can get my Tiger-I done about the same time you get this one done. See you at the finish line. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Chris, My name is not "Duke"! I NEVER race. Sorry. I am a terrible procrastinator. I just trudge along and do what I can. Unfortunately, My next burst probably won't be until I get the 17 Pdr rounds for the hull and then I will procrastinate about painting them. I hate painting! You keep plogging along on the Tiger. I love the way the PE Zimmerit turned out! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Deliduka Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Chris, My name is not "Duke"! I NEVER race. Mark Hey! I resemble that remark! I don't race either, but I sure enjoy kicking out a lot of models. Just finished four more. Gonna see about getting pics taken and posted soon. Mark, that Achilles is coming along great! Your detail work is pristine, I love it! Keep up the great work and don't take so long showing us more. This is too good to wait too long for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aldrich Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Duke, Thanks and I meant no disrespect by that comment. You kick em out like there is no tomorrow and I just don't move that fast. I still am a procrastenator! However, If I can force myself to put the wiring in, I should be able to fire the majority of the paint soon and have this almost finished. Then I can start working on my backlogs. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
802chrisg Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Chris, My name is not "Duke"! I NEVER race. Sorry. I am a terrible procrastinator. I just trudge along and do what I can. Unfortunately, My next burst probably won't be until I get the 17 Pdr rounds for the hull and then I will procrastinate about painting them. I hate painting! You keep plogging along on the Tiger. I love the way the PE Zimmerit turned out! Mark LOL :P Mark you sound like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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