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World War I Aircraqft Colors and such


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I am building the Wingnuts Wings Sopwith Pup. Paint references are given by manufacturer and callout number. (ie. Tamiya XF**, Humbrol **, Misterkit BC**) I am looking for accurate pre-mixed colors or something like Model Master FS numbers. I would consider the instruction sheet callouts as close enough for government work only.

 

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good to high quality single-action airbrush. I have an Iwata double-action but it requires a lot of hand/finger coordination which my arthritis and carpal tunnel thing is making difficult. My preference would be for a bottom feeding or siphon type rather than gravity.

 

I am using a CO2 bottle and two stage regulator for "air" source. It has no higher start-up cost than a decent compressor and sure beats the pants of it. The only thing you hear is the slight hiss when you are actually spraying and it is more accurate as far as pressure control. Empty bottles are swapped out for a refilled one and the cost is very low.

Edited by TheWalrus
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I am building the Wingnuts Wings Sopwith Pup. Paint references are given by manufacturer and callout number. (ie. Tamiya XF**, Humbrol **, Misterkit BC**) I am looking for accurate pre-mixed colors or something like Model Master FS numbers. I would consider the instruction sheet callouts as close enough for government work only.

 

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good to high quality single-action airbrush. I have an Iwata double-action but it requires a lot of hand/finger coordination which my arthritis and carpal tunnel thing is making difficult. My preference would be for a bottom feeding or siphon type rather than gravity.

 

I am using a CO2 bottle and two stage regulator for "air" source. It has no higher start-up cost than a decent compressor and sure beats the pants of it. The only thing you hear is the slight hiss when you are actually spraying and it is more accurate as far as pressure control. Empty bottles are swapped out for a refilled one and the cost is very low.

The Badger 200 is a very good, fairly inexpensive single action airbrush, made right here in the good ole USA. In addition, Badger will let you send one of their airbrushes in, no matter how old, and they will, clean it and put it back in factory specs for you at no charge. They even pay to ship it back to you. They reserve the right to charge you for parts if parts need replacement, but i just sent two in, one of which, 20 years old, had a broken air valve. They replaced parts in both brushes and sent them back no charge. You can't go wrong with a Badger 200 for a single action brush.

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Ditto David's opinion of Badger. I have a 150 and a 200 and love 'em!

 

later,

 

Lee

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David: there are no "FS" numbers for WWI colors. The colors used varied way too much, from country to country and manfacturer to manufacturer, and FS hadn't been invented yet. There are some Munsel color equivalents, but good luck on tracking down a good source for those! You'll see references to that in the Windsock Datafile WWI books when covering color info.

 

The Brits used "PC-10" for a lot of their stuff. It's the WWI equivilant of OD green, and like the WWII OD colors, it can vary from a dark green to a khaki brown; depending on manufacturer paint batch and exposure to the weather. "Clear Doped Linen" is another common WWI color that was essentially a clear dope placed over the plain uncolored fabric to seal it and shrink it taut. However, depending on the number of coats, exposure to the elements, and its age it could be a light gray, light buff, a yellow tan, or even a bit of an orange tan (think "shellac").

 

Metal parts were generally painted gray, if not painted in a squadron color. Keep in mind there were NO "aircraft" paints; they hadn't been developed! Automotive paint and other paints for metal surfaces would have been used, and the colors would have been whatever was available for commercial use. There was some bare metal panels on some planes, especially Sopwith Pups and Camels. Very few would have been highly polished, and even if they started off with a shine, they would dull quickly in service. Field maintenence wouldn't worry about that, and it was too early for them to really worry about corrosion yet.

 

Plain wood for WWI planes is a technique all to itself, and varies from builder to builder. My best suggestion is to go to Hyperscale.com and check out the other Wingnuts builds posted there, especially the LVG builds. There are several good "tutorials" on how to get a nice looking plain wood finish.

 

In short, those paint call-outs in the instructions should be good enough. If you can get the Humbrol stuff, they probably have more dedicated WWI colors than most other manufacturers. If not, decide what shade of dark green and underside tan you want to put on the Pup and then find the closest approximates in your favorite paint brand. Best of luck!

 

GIL :smiley16:

Edited by ghodges
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If you are looking for pre-mixed colors, you might want to try the Mr Kit line. They are a small specialty Italian line aimed at WWI aviation. I've never used the paint, but I've also never heard of anyone saying the colors are wildly innaccurate. Here's a link to their US distributor. http://www.misterkitusa.com/Page2.html

 

Generally though, if you don't want to go the Mr Kit line, I'd go ahead an mix what you want. As Gil stated, there were no standards, and colors varied pretty widely.

 

Mike Moore

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David -- As far as single-action airbrushes, you can do a few different things. One would be the Badger 200 as suggested, which a lot of people use, a Paasche H, which I have and like, and another that seems to be quite popular, or go with a Paasche VL, which is technically an internal mix double action. However, there is a knob on top that sets the trigger at a predetermined rearward position, essentially creating a single action brush. I also lack some of that control and coordination for the same reasons you do. Personally, I prefer Paasche over Badger mainly due to the trigger/button. I just don't like the way the Badger trigger feels, and my finger keeps slipping off it, which doesn't happen with any of the Paasche airbrushes I have (H, VL and VSR). I've been considering putting a blob of silicone on the Badger trigger and trying that, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet. It may make me appreciate the Badger more, who knows. And for whatever it's worth, it has been my experience with Paasche that they are as generous with repair work.

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The Badger 200 is a very good, fairly inexpensive single action airbrush, made right here in the good ole USA. In addition, Badger will let you send one of their airbrushes in, no matter how old, and they will, clean it and put it back in factory specs for you at no charge. They even pay to ship it back to you. They reserve the right to charge you for parts if parts need replacement, but i just sent two in, one of which, 20 years old, had a broken air valve. They replaced parts in both brushes and sent them back no charge. You can't go wrong with a Badger 200 for a single action brush.

Thank you. I will check it out. The Badger brand was the first airbrush I ever had, purchased in early 70's. I have also recently heard good things about the Badger Company's servicing policy.

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David: there are no "FS" numbers for WWI colors. The colors used varied way too much, from country to country and manfacturer to manufacturer, and FS hadn't been invented yet. There are some Munsel color equivalents, but good luck on tracking down a good source for those! You'll see references to that in the Windsock Datafile WWI books when covering color info.

 

The Brits used "PC-10" for a lot of their stuff. It's the WWI equivilant of OD green, and like the WWII OD colors, it can vary from a dark green to a khaki brown; depending on manufacturer paint batch and exposure to the weather. "Clear Doped Linen" is another common WWI color that was essentially a clear dope placed over the plain uncolored fabric to seal it and shrink it taut. However, depending on the number of coats, exposure to the elements, and its age it could be a light gray, light buff, a yellow tan, or even a bit of an orange tan (think "shellac").

 

Metal parts were generally painted gray, if not painted in a squadron color. Keep in mind there were NO "aircraft" paints; they hadn't been developed! Automotive paint and other paints for metal surfaces would have been used, and the colors would have been whatever was available for commercial use. There was some bare metal panels on some planes, especially Sopwith Pups and Camels. Very few would have been highly polished, and even if they started off with a shine, they would dull quickly in service. Field maintenence wouldn't worry about that, and it was too early for them to really worry about corrosion yet.

 

Plain wood for WWI planes is a technique all to itself, and varies from builder to builder. My best suggestion is to go to Hyperscale.com and check out the other Wingnuts builds posted there, especially the LVG builds. There are several good "tutorials" on how to get a nice looking plain wood finish.

 

In short, those paint call-outs in the instructions should be good enough. If you can get the Humbrol stuff, they probably have more dedicated WWI colors than most other manufacturers. If not, decide what shade of dark green and underside tan you want to put on the Pup and then find the closest approximates in your favorite paint brand. Best of luck!

 

GIL :smiley16:

Thanks, Gil. I knew that FS numbers were not used but I thought it would give a cross reference between brands. I decided, that on your advice, I would buy the Tamiya acrylics called out in the instructions. As you say, they should be good enough and besides who can argue the accuracy? :smiley20:

 

Thank yuou also for the discussion and Hyperscale site. I avoided WWI aircraft, mainly due to the rigging pain, but after seeing the Wingnut offerings and checking out the hugely improved modeling materials, including the stretchy rigging material, I have brecome hooked. My Sopwith Pup is moving along slowly but at my ager there is no hurry. Besides I will never get to the bottom of the stacks in the garage, anyway.

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David -- As far as single-action airbrushes, you can do a few different things. One would be the Badger 200 as suggested, which a lot of people use, a Paasche H, which I have and like, and another that seems to be quite popular, or go with a Paasche VL, which is technically an internal mix double action. However, there is a knob on top that sets the trigger at a predetermined rearward position, essentially creating a single action brush. I also lack some of that control and coordination for the same reasons you do. Personally, I prefer Paasche over Badger mainly due to the trigger/button. I just don't like the way the Badger trigger feels, and my finger keeps slipping off it, which doesn't happen with any of the Paasche airbrushes I have (H, VL and VSR). I've been considering putting a blob of silicone on the Badger trigger and trying that, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet. It may make me appreciate the Badger more, who knows. And for whatever it's worth, it has been my experience with Paasche that they are as generous with repair work.

Great advice and information. The Badger and the Paasche are cheap enough that I might give both a try. I have had a Badger (can't remember model no. but purchased in about 1970) and the Paasche and I do think it was a modle H. I am also going to try your idea of trying out a blob of silicon on the trigger of the dual action Iwata HP-BCS.

 

Any thoughts on gravity feeds as opposed to siphon feed. My only experience was with the siphon feed.

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If you are looking for pre-mixed colors, you might want to try the Mr Kit line. They are a small specialty Italian line aimed at WWI aviation. I've never used the paint, but I've also never heard of anyone saying the colors are wildly innaccurate. Here's a link to their US distributor. http://www.misterkitusa.com/Page2.html

 

Generally though, if you don't want to go the Mr Kit line, I'd go ahead an mix what you want. As Gil stated, there were no standards, and colors varied pretty widely.

 

Mike Moore

Thanks, Mike. I decided to buy the Tamiya colors as called out in the instruction sheet. I decided to follow Gil's advice about color choice. However I am going to check out the Misterkit line in the future.

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Great advice and information. The Badger and the Paasche are cheap enough that I might give both a try. I have had a Badger (can't remember model no. but purchased in about 1970) and the Paasche and I do think it was a modle H. I am also going to try your idea of trying out a blob of silicon on the trigger of the dual action Iwata HP-BCS.

 

Any thoughts on gravity feeds as opposed to siphon feed. My only experience was with the siphon feed.

 

Addendum. After all the great advice from everyone regarding my airbrush and paint colors question I went to my local art supply house. The intent was to purchase a Paasche and/or Badger as advised. Looking in the display case my eye was drawn to a flourescent green thing. Turned out it was the handle on a Grex Tritium Series TS3. It had all the features I was asking for and more. The trigger style took care of the arthritus and carpal situation; it was double action, but could be preset which essentially made it single action; it can be set up with gravity cups or siphon feed and feed can be connected from either side of the brush depending on preference and handing. Well, what could I do? I asked the price and after recovery I bought it. I haven't tried it yet because the low pressure gauge on my tank has failed and a replacement won't arrive until Friday.

 

If anyone is interested I will pass along my experience with this thing in the Tips and Techniques Forum.

Edited by TheWalrus
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David,

I'd love to hear your experiences using the Grex trigger-pull airbrush! Please share your take on it....

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  • 3 weeks later...
David,

I'd love to hear your experiences using the Grex trigger-pull airbrush! Please share your take on it....

 

I have used the Grex TS3 for a little over a week and am nothing less than impressed. It is much easier for me to control and use due to the trigger design. Yesterday I used my Iwata double action and was really frustrated and not satisfied with the way it went. It's not lick on the Iwata; just a lick on the double action push and pull design. It makes for a difficult task if you have carpal and arthritus.

 

The selling point for me with the Grex is that it is a double action design but can be preset for paint flow. Preset is good for me because I don't havre to adjust and hold the air/paint flow on the fly

 

The cons are: price; (apparent) size of feed pipes from paint container seems to be not the more common; paint bottles are twize as tall as common Badger, Iwata, Pasche, etc. sizes. Also, glass bottle has larger mouth which, so far, has pinned me to their bottles for extras.

 

Pro's more comfortable handling and adjustment, ease of use, really cool bright lime green handle color.

 

Conclusion: No way would I not recommend this airbrush. By the way, Iwata makes a look-alike but I believe it is more expensive and it isn't the cool color.

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I have used the Grex TS3 for a little over a week and am nothing less than impressed. It is much easier for me to control and use due to the trigger design. Yesterday I used my Iwata double action and was really frustrated and not satisfied with the way it went. It's not lick on the Iwata; just a lick on the double action push and pull design. It makes for a difficult task if you have carpal and arthritus.

 

The selling point for me with the Grex is that it is a double action design but can be preset for paint flow. Preset is good for me because I don't havre to adjust and hold the air/paint flow on the fly

 

The cons are: price; (apparent) size of feed pipes from paint container seems to be not the more common; paint bottles are twize as tall as common Badger, Iwata, Pasche, etc. sizes. Also, glass bottle has larger mouth which, so far, has pinned me to their bottles for extras.

 

Pro's more comfortable handling and adjustment, ease of use, really cool bright lime green handle color.

 

Conclusion: No way would I not recommend this airbrush. By the way, Iwata makes a look-alike but I believe it is more expensive and it isn't the cool color.

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David: there are no "FS" numbers for WWI colors. The colors used varied way too much, from country to country and manfacturer to manufacturer, and FS hadn't been invented yet. There are some Munsel color equivalents, but good luck on tracking down a good source for those! You'll see references to that in the Windsock Datafile WWI books when covering color info.

 

...find the closest approximates in your favorite paint brand. Best of luck!

 

Two Words: Artistic License. My favorite two words, or excuse, FWIW. Season to taste with "scale effect" and whatever else makes it look right to you.

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