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Unfortunately I will not be able to make it to Omaha next week but I am very interested in how BKB is received and functions. Not to sound like a total nerd but.... is there any plan in place to get some formalized feedback/data on this category change? It would be nice to at least know if there is any seriously large scale blow back. I myself am hoping the new categories are well received.

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15 minutes ago, DaSWO said:

I am sure there will many comments on this forum, positive and negative.

For sure but I'm interested in actual data. Squeaky wheels not so much.

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I would like to know as well. Even though I don't see myself attending another Nationals for the foreseeable future, I do extensively build basic kits and would love to see this become more permanent.

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You can bet that many will show up not having read the rules and complain vociferously about the change when they find out their contest entry must now compete in a category other than the old “out of the box.”

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52 minutes ago, SkyKing said:

You can bet that many will show up not having read the rules and complain vociferously about the change when they find out their contest entry must now compete in a category other than the old “out of the box.”

And they might just be shocked at how well they do there. Wouldn't that be interesting?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have seen zero feedback about BKB. There was a bit of discussion between it's announcement and Nats but I have seen or heard nothing since. The silence is deafening.

 

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24 minutes ago, ShutterAce said:

I have seen zero feedback about BKB. There was a bit of discussion between it's announcement and Nats but I have seen or heard nothing since. The silence is deafening.

 

2nd VP John Bonanni has sent out surveys to all attendees, requesting feedback on how to improve the process. Last I've heard, over 300 respondents so far. He stated all results will be made available to the membership. I'm pretty sure BKB will be addressed.

If you perform a craniorectal inversion, your hearing will probably improve.

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12 hours ago, ShutterAce said:

I have seen zero feedback about BKB. There was a bit of discussion between it's announcement and Nats but I have seen or heard nothing since. The silence is deafening.

 

Ships did well, within the cyclical numbers seen in their OOB-Single Media Only category in recent years.   It is my understanding that Aircraft and Autos were also well supported. 

The complaints among the armor modelers seemingly were that multimedia kits (i.e. those with PE, turned metal, and/or resin bits) entered in BKB were moved to the standard categories leaving the categories perhaps 'under subscribed'.   The chief complaint was that the awards for these categories could have been better used as potential splits in some of the standard categories.   

See comments above about not modelers reading the rules.

In the past the NCC Contest Recorder has produced a final report to the eBoard which contains, in eye blurring detail, the number of entries in each category as well as trends in category participation.    The NCC uses that information to identify trends for categories to be added, deleted, or changed.    New categories are typically given a minimum 3 year run to see how well they do, and are not a flash in the pan.

At the NCC meeting in Omaha, one of the lessons learned from a trial run at a local contest as well as at the Nationals was that 'Basic Kit Build' was perhaps too esoteric and the working title 'Single Media Only' which was used while the rules changes were being considered should be going forward.   It is more descriptive of the intent of the changed categories.   This will be discussed at an upcoming zoom meeting

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I thought the BKB armor categories were just fine. 
Mike

Edited by MRechlicz
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What is the vision for bkb? What are they hoping to achieve with this category? I think what would make sense is flipping it on its head and having standard and advanced. Advanced requires the use of 2 or 3 aftermarket items. Also, props needs exposed engines. 

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I attended and judged in Omaha (but not any of the BKB cats). My observation was that the a/c BKB cats were populated about the same as the old OOTB cats were, though it did seem to me that they seemed to be broken out a bit more, making for more BKB cats than OOTB cats.

Personally, I like the idea of limiting what kits can be used and making the rules for building "stricter". I've watched the chief judges cave and allow more and more "exceptions" in the old OOTB categories for decades, not to mention the growth of the gray areas with the addition of the multi-media kits that muddied up the original idea of separating those who do NOT want to add buku details from those who do.

The new BKB cats eliminate all of those problems. If the kit qualifies as a "basic" kit, you build what's in the box, NO exceptions. If you don't like to build that way, then build anything and compete in the general cats. It' was also kind of cool (imo) to see some older Hawk and Monogram kits battling it out among themselves on a very level playing field, without Eduard or Special Hobby kits with resin and pe getting in the way.

 

Gil :cool:

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I entered a car in the BKB category, but like an idiot, forgot to bring the instructions. So there's my 2 cents and a grain of salt.

Good concept in work here. Please don't give up on it.

 

Edited by VonL
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3 minutes ago, VonL said:

I entered a car in the BKB category, but like an idiot, forgot to bring the instructions. So there's my 2 cents and a grain of salt.

Good concept in work here. Please don't give up on it.

 

You are not alone. I saw a lot of people that had to print out the instructions. 

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Thanks for the feedback. Much more useful than the responses from the FB group.

Change is always accompanied by backlash. There is no getting around that. I'll be interested to see what the numbers are like when the data is released.

As far as aircraft are concerned I would have expected to see a lot of the newer Tamiya releases. Things like the P-38's, the Hein, the Spit, and even the old P-47's. Those are all single media I think. Were they well represented or did people make the mistake that BKB was restricted to vintage kits and mainly enter those? Gil, you metioned older kits. Any idea what the ratio was "old" to "new"?

As for instructions being left at home, that's normal. Happens all the time. I'm sure those entrants were happy to have the modern conveniences to print them on site.

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I helped do the splits in A/C. The BKB turnout was pretty nice in 1/72 (it was split) and well subscribed in the other larger scale categories.  Only a few got moved for no instructions, I heard no complaints directed toward the category itself but just the usual debate among modelers about the BKB/OOB concept. There are numbers as we had to write down the entry numbers on the judging tracking sheets and the category sheets used by the judges. I can't speak outside of aircraft, but it appears to me for a new category it was well received.

If the NCC wants to keep this type of BKB category I think they have a pretty good start with the rules as they are now IMO as far as A/C go. 

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Didn't pay close enough attention to be able to say how many older (80s and earlier) kits there were as compared  to the "newer" single media kits that you might think would have a bit of an advantage in the BKB cats. However, I suspect since "basics" eliminate 95% of all models in EVERY category, and accuracy is NOT a criteria; building that newer mold subject probably doesn't help as much as one might think.

The biggest difference that caught my eye immediately was the lack of seat belts (except for decalled types) in almost all of the BKB entries. But, since it was the same for all of them, you could quickly adjust to the idea of building a model without them for a BKB cat.

 

The biggest change with the switch to BKB seems to be the "leveling" of the field as far as kits are concerned. Many of the more decently molded kits from the 70s-80s can compete on better a footing with the newer 21rst century plastic only moldings, since it'll be building and finishing skills that will make the difference, and not a myriad of resin or PE detailing that happens to come in a new kit.

 

Gil  :cool:

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The Facebook "discussion" seems to have devolved into the pattern that dominates IPMS rules and category and judging method interchanges ... wherever they are located.   That pattern is to say something, then say the same thing over, then over again, then once more, then repeat it, then hit it again.  HST, there is a category for those unhappy with the BKB rules -- that category is any other category besides BKB; if you don't like BKB, then enter in a regular category.

I too am looking forward to actual data on BKB entries and results.  Which should come when the contest data is shuffled and digested.

 

 

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On 8/6/2022 at 6:33 PM, Highlander said:

The Facebook "discussion" seems to have devolved into the pattern that dominates IPMS rules and category and judging method interchanges ... wherever they are located.   That pattern is to say something, then say the same thing over, then over again, then once more, then repeat it, then hit it again.  HST, there is a category for those unhappy with the BKB rules -- that category is any other category besides BKB; if you don't like BKB, then enter in a regular category.

I too am looking forward to actual data on BKB entries and results.  Which should come when the contest data is shuffled and digested.

 

 

The FB discussion turned into a rant session with too many people complaining about BKB with a follow up statement saying they don't enter that category anyway.

 

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  • 1 month later...

NCC's final report on Omaha will be going to the board soon.  The short answer is that in Omaha BKB entries comprised 10% of the total entries (2713).   By comparison 2021 in Vegas the OOB entries accounted for 12% of the total (2680).    The change is not significant, but will be monitored.    If the change becomes significant the entire OOB/BKB concept may be evaluated for deletion

Ed Grune -- NCC Head Ship Judge

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