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How to get new BKB evaluation


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I have a ship, the 1/350 Tamiya PRince of Wales, that I built for the OOB category originally. I think it fits the new category but would like a sense of that from someone who can give an answer based on developing the rules. Locally that’s not been possible. Is there a way for me to get an evaluation of whether it will fit in the new basic kit build category before i try to box it up and travel to Omaha? If so i can post pics and descriptions or whatever someone would want. 

Chris

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Hi Chris,

I can't find the instructions for the PoW but did find them for the King George which I think are pretty similar.

That shows no PE in the kit so meets the single media and it shows rigging is noted in the instructions so adding that stays in the rules.

Have you done any modifications, etc.?

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for getting back to me guys! Here’s some detail and pics to help out.

 I drilled out the port holes, the main gun barrels, the stacks, and the cranes. I rigged the cranes. I don’t think that is referenced in instructions so if not that is easily removed.
 

 

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A06DE20A-703B-49D2-9500-335A77C2BFC8.jpeg

Edited by TheMongoose
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Wow Chris! That is a magnificent model! The idea for mounting the masts and rigging them before adding them to the main hull is a unique and brilliant idea. Thanks for posting these pics here.

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Great looking build Chris.

I think drilling out the portholes and gun barrels still falls under the BKB rules but I think the work done on the cranes might keep it out of the BKB category.

"● Ship models aren’t required to have railings, radar antennas, or rigging, nor can they be added unless they’re included or noted in kit instructions." - The instructions clearly show rigging so you are fine there.

"B. Construction. The modeler may fill seams and gaps; sand off rivets; drill out gun ports, exhaust pipes, or other appropriate openings; thin to-scale such parts as trailing edges, flaps, and doors; re-scribe panel lines lost in construction, and add rigging and antennas, if shown on the kit’s instructions. No major reconstruction or modifications will be allowed for BKB entries."

The construction rule is where is gets a little shaky in my opinion.  It could be argued that opening the crane up is "appropriate" but once you add the cables to the crane, you have exceeded the intent of what is in the box. 

If you had original cranes you could put on the model you would be good for the show and then swap them back afterwards.  It really does add to the look.  Or you could enter it in the regular ship category, 

I have also sent an email to the NCC to see if drilling out the cranes themselves would still qualify for the BKB category or if that is going a bit more than the intended context of the rule.  I will post the answer when I get one.

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46 minutes ago, jcorley said:

Question: Would waterlining the hull be considered a major modification?

Oh interesting question. I hadn’t even thought of it that way. Will be interesting to hear an opinion on that. That may kick it out all together. Which is fine guys, don’t worry about me wanting it in the category, i just want to figure out what fits in the BKB as I like to build right out of the box and will do more for this category in the future.

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2 minutes ago, TheMongoose said:

Oh interesting question. I hadn’t even thought of it that way. Will be interesting to hear an opinion on that. That may kick it out all together. Which is fine guys, don’t worry about me wanting it in the category, i just want to figure out what fits in the BKB as I like to build right out of the box and will do more for this category in the future.

Actually Jim, I think that would.  That is definitely be a modification to the original kit.

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Ok, let’s not drop this one yet. One follow up - originally i was just going to bury the hull in the foam so it wouldn’t have been cut at all. Does that make a difference?

Plus, i’d still like to know if the drilled out cranes are ok? I have done that twice now and am getting pretty good at it but if it would disqualify a future build I would keep a kit set for it unmodified.

 

thanks again for a great discussion!

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Another good question Chris.

My thought on this is even if was not cut but displayed in a water scene, that it probably wouldn't qualify for BKB, unless you could pull it out and display it on a stand for the competition.

Personally I plan to do all of my boats in a scenic scene as I just prefer them that way.

But I am only the 1st VP and not part of the NCC so what do I know.

I will keep you informed on what I hear back from the NCC unless someone there posts here first.  I know the Head Ship Judge is in the forum so hopefully he will chime in.

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In prior iterations of the Rules & Categories the Ships Class had both Out-of-the-Box Single Media and OOB High Tech categories.   The Single Media rules became the template for the general BKB rules as put forward.    Within the Ships Class, High Tech was eliminated and Single Media became BKB.   The prior rules allowed for waterlining an entry because there are a preponderous number of other waterline ship kits and there are some modelers who prefer to keep their fleets looking similar.  I allowed for that.    The converse of adding a lower hull is not allowed.   Since it is possible that a modeler began an OOB entry before the BKB rules were released I would consider that to be grandfathered in.

Drilling gun barrels is and was allowed.    No problem there.    Drilling and cleaning up lattice work is similar and would also be akin to thinning to scale thickness.

But always remember the more you do the more you can do something that affects the craftsmanship standpoint.

And I always remind modelers that we do not judge bases; be it revetment for an aircraft,  a muddy field for a tank, or a water scene for a ship.   You get no extra credit for your work in the standard categories.   If you want to have your base work evaluated enter in the Vignette/Diorama class

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, EFGrune said:

In prior iterations of the Rules & Categories the Ships Class had both Out-of-the-Box Single Media and OOB High Tech categories.   The Single Media rules became the template for the general BKB rules as put forward.    Within the Ships Class, High Tech was eliminated and Single Media became BKB.   The prior rules allowed for waterlining an entry because there are a preponderous number of other waterline ship kits and there are some modelers who prefer to keep their fleets looking similar.  I allowed for that.    The converse of adding a lower hull is not allowed.   Since it is possible that a modeler began an OOB entry before the BKB rules were released I would consider that to be grandfathered in.

Drilling gun barrels is and was allowed.    No problem there.    Drilling and cleaning up lattice work is similar and would also be akin to thinning to scale thickness.

But always remember the more you do the more you can do something that affects the craftsmanship standpoint.

And I always remind modelers that we do not judge bases; be it revetment for an aircraft,  a muddy field for a tank, or a water scene for a ship.   You get no extra credit for your work in the standard categories.   If you want to have your base work evaluated enter in the Vignette/Diorama class

Thanks for the insight Ed. Totally agree with the thought on vignette for sure. I may, in the end, enter it there. In Dayton at Regionals I ended up in vignette and took a gold. I really do like the BKB category and want to stick to that for some of my builds.

From the sounds of it so far the model without the rigging on the cranes would fit the bill and BKB would be a relevant category for it. The waterlining might get me, we’ll have to see. I’ll await any input on this I can get.

Chris

Edited by TheMongoose
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Chris, I like to build right out of the box as well. I'd say about 98.9% of my models are build to BKB specs.

 

I'm watching this thread closely too.

 

Phil, thank you for all you're doing here. You're about the best 1st VP Ive seen yet!

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I have an armor question for the BKB category. 
I am building a German halftrack and the only pe is mud flaps and the pieces where you put your license plates. 
Now the license plate holders are flat and you would never know that they are pe once the decals are on them. The mud flaps add no additional detail to the kit. So would this qualify for BKB or not?

Thank you for your input.

Mike

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Add neither and it will, else no it goes to the standard category.

One of the goals of BKB are to do away with the 'what can I add and stay within the rules' questions.

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So only plastic that came in the box can be used, got it. Thank you for your response.

Mike

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Actually, the way the rule is written, the fact that the kit includes PE excludes it from the BKB category.

"Kits with various other materials included (e.g. cast-resin or 3D-resin detailing accessories, etched metal detailing frets, turned-metal detailing parts, and other similar detailing parts) will not be permitted."

It doesn't matter whether you use them or not, the fact they are included with the kit is the deciding factor, at least, as the rule is written.

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As a general guideline, kit parts that are necessary to complete and support the overall structure of the completed model are allowed. However, other kit parts that provide enhanced surface-detailing to a completed model will not be allowed for a BKB entry.

What exactly does the above statement mean? It is copied from the BKB rules. Again thanks for all the responses as I just want to make sure of what the BKB rules allow and not allow.

Mike

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This acknowledges that there may be structural parts that would be outside of the single media criteria that may be used.   Rivets, polycaps, screws or other mechanical fasteners,  metal weights, etc.  They are typically structural/internal and not for detail purposes

 

 

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4 minutes ago, BrianMiller said:

What about PE cage masts that are in some ship kits? On a few kits that is the only option for cage masts.

Which is why that kit wouldn't qualify as a BKB.  You would enter in the regular ship category.

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Just in case you want to know the reason for the change in the rule, it is spelled out in the Rules:

"Redefining/Renaming Out-of-the Box (OOB): Manufacturers now offer comprehensive model kits which include what used to be separately purchased after-market detailing accessories . In addition, numerous requests over the years to add after-market parts to a list of ‘allowable exceptions’ have acted to dilute the purpose of out-of-the-box categories which were intended to promote building basic kits.

Starting with the 2022 national contest, the OOB categories (and the rules for them) have been renamed to Basic Kit Build (BKB), to better describe the intent for this competition classification – older or more basic kits, absent extra manufactured detailing parts."

 

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So, the definition of basic kit build is simply the way we used to build them in our youth.... well most of us. I guess examples of Basic Kit Builds are here:

 

None have photo etch, resin parts, replacement canopies or even replacement decals or rigging.

528516547_USArmyAH-56CheyenneIII.jpg.d4b72b53591f895a90b38d5543cb72f8.jpg

This one even has the original 40+ year old decals!

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This was from an original Matchbox boxing:

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This one again has the original 40+ year old decals:

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Granted, none of these would be contenders in a contest, but they are the epitome of Basic Kit Builds. The only difference between these and contenders is the skill of the builder in assembling them, painting them, weathering them and nothing else. It doesn't get any clearer than that! I can also see that if aftermarket decals are allowed, I can understand why, given the state of the Vampire decals. There is no fixing some of those ancient decals.

And if someone says they are all old kits; well the Cheyenne was built very recently from a re-popped kit from Atlantis, very newly released in relative terms. I have more but I hope you all get the idea.

 

These are examples of my building: only what's in the box. I always build Basic, and some of my models don't qualify for Basic Kit Build because the manufacturer added photo etch to the kit. I'm good with that.

 

 

 

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