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So, who wants to host in 2024, 2025?


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18 hours ago, Mark Deliduka said:

Pete it's too bad that people still hang on to the past like that. San Diego might be a great place if it is not scheduled anywhere around Comicon. Unfortunately, that is not possible as Comicon is always scheduled the third weekend in July.

 

I would also love to see Pensacola do a Nationals. I have two sisters, my mom and a nephew that live there too. Talk about saving on hotel costs! Oh well, a man can dream.....

Well, maybe.  One of the oldest sayings I know is "those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it."

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On 7/13/2022 at 6:02 AM, Ron Bell said:

...the number of room nights used is too little for the larger hotels....

I am not disagreeing, but I would be more convinced if I had data on:

1.  The number of room nights required to subsidize an IPMS Nats ... the recent average.

2.  The number of rooms reserved by the venue for the convention block.

3.  The number of times, before each Nats, that the host chapter has asked for more rooms to be released for the convention block.

My experience has been that (1) all the rooms sell out immediately (or before immediately, but that's another story), (2) the host chapter asks for more rooms to be released -- sometimes multiple times, and (3) the various forums and social media sites have multiple complaints from IPMS members about not being able to get a room.  My experience would lead me to believe that the appetite for rooms significantly exceeds the number of rooms available.  Which leads me to wonder that, if more rooms are available, they would be easily sold and generate the room nights required to support a larger venue in a bigger city.

HST, I have also observed the cancellations that occur 3-4 weeks before each Nats.  I did not go to Columbia because I could not get a hotel room within reasonable distance of the venue.  I was on several waiting lists, and, two weeks before the Nats, the host hotel called and offered me a room.  It was too late.  The hotel informed me that they had about 20 cancellations starting three weeks before the Nats.  One might wonder how many people cannot come because of issues that impact upon their lives and how many people make reservations just in case they later decide, maybe, could be, things could fall into place, to attend -- after all, they can always cancel.

HST, again, I have overheard Nats sponsors, during registration, worrying about whether they will generate enough room nights because of the number of last minute cancellations.

Finally, as if this post is not already long enough, I've pointed out elsewhere that hotel rates for conventions have been rising for years.  IPMS's members expectations of a room for less than $200 a night will soon be dashed; IPMS is already an anomaly.  My wife is paying @$260 for a convention in Houston this fall.  And, now, let's factor in runaway inflation.....

Edited by Highlander
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On 7/14/2022 at 7:14 AM, PeteJ said:

Well, maybe.  One of the oldest sayings I know is "those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it."

I have no problem with remembering the past; particularly to learn from it. In my opinion; that is the primary reason to remember the past so one avoids the bad things that happened then. My problem is with people who "remember the past" for the purpose of saying to themselves and others "never again because of X,Y and Z"! Too many who "remember the past" refuse to give anyone from that past who knows what went wrong and how to fix it, a second chance. That's what I'm referring to. Look on the other board where so many are saying California would be a problem for them. I'm sure they are referring to the high cost of everything here; or the mountains that are blocking us and cutting our state off from the rest of the country; but too many more are "remembering the past" and using it as an excuse to never attend one of our Nationals again. And that is what I'm calling out as wrong.

 

Even many ex-cons get a second chance, but not us...

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I had a great time at the Orange County show and would go again.

Mark, we seem to have the same issue in SLC.  They held the 1980 show and lost a lot of personal funds.  This was before Board stepped in to cover expenses but getting people to understand the way things work has changed is an uphill battle.

Salt Lake City has a lot to offer as in sites to see and has 3 local clubs to support the show.

Maybe someday.

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On 7/15/2022 at 4:27 PM, Mark Deliduka said:

I have no problem with remembering the past; particularly to learn from it. In my opinion; that is the primary reason to remember the past so one avoids the bad things that happened then. My problem is with people who "remember the past" for the purpose of saying to themselves and others "never again because of X,Y and Z"! Too many who "remember the past" refuse to give anyone from that past who knows what went wrong and how to fix it, a second chance. That's what I'm referring to. Look on the other board where so many are saying California would be a problem for them. I'm sure they are referring to the high cost of everything here; or the mountains that are blocking us and cutting our state off from the rest of the country; but too many more are "remembering the past" and using it as an excuse to never attend one of our Nationals again. And that is what I'm calling out as wrong.

 

Even many ex-cons get a second chance, but not us...

For me it's costs, we cancelled all our summer day trips to pay for gas to Omaha. 2-3 day drive to California, is tight for me.  Add the cost of everything and I am over budget. 

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Highlander,

I believe all the numbers you are asking for are available from the 2nd VP in a chart that he keeps. The only one he might not have is the number of times the room block number needed to be bumped. I'd also comment on your first question with the reply any good lawyer would give, "It depends". If the venue is in a separate convention center, it might be one number or maybe might not apply at all. If it's the hotel's venue, it depends on what the cost of that venue is and how much the hotel is willing to subsidize your event. It's hard to get a real "average" as in many cases it's like comparing apples and oranges. In any case, contact the Second VP, John Bonnani, here ipmsusa2ndvp@ipmsusa.org for a copy of the chart I mentioned. If it has been kept up to date, there's a LOT of info there. 

Edited by Ron Bell
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/15/2022 at 6:35 PM, ShutterAce said:

So what the heck did happen in California? Did somebody get their Ya-Yas out?

I can't learn without know what the lesson is.

Well, the quick, down and dirty explanation was their computer crashed and they guys had a nearly impossible time figuring out registration, and other problems.

Having said that, I ran into none of the problems and had a great time at that Con. I even had a pin in the goodie bag.  Plous I got to meet up with a long time buddy, who lived a few towns soiuth. I even reintroduced him to scale modeling and now he's an active model builder.   Anyway, being "next door" to Disney helped out a lot as we take the Nats trip as a family vacation, so wifey could spend the time with my then young son visiting The Mouse, while I soaked in all the seminar info.

My big pet peeve is what was mentioned a page or two ago about all the guys who rush to make a reservation, and then a few weeks before the Show, cancel. Sure, things happen last minute, but not the dozens of rooms that suddenly become available. But by then buying a last minute plane ticket is astronomical.  

I've been attending the Nats since '03-'04 and I remember that if I made a reservation by Christmas (with the reservations opening in Sept-Oct.) I had myself a room in the main hotel. The CO show was the first one where I tried to reserve just before Xmas, and was told the main hotel was sold out. Now it's to the point where if you don't reserve on THE day that reservations open - your SOL. 

As I've gotten older my mobility is now an issue, and if I can't get into the convention hotel, I can't manage all the extra walking so me and my $$ just stay home.   I wonder how many are in my situation and stay home?

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The story I heard was that the Orange County’s main IT guy had some kind of emergency, and the rest of the team were not as well versed running the computers.  So when things went wrong, they struggled to get things back up again.  It looks like they really tried though.

Aside from slow registration, the only thing that bugged me was that I never got back money for a cancelled museum tour.  But that’s water under the bridge now.

But if OC hosts another convention, I would go.  But not because of the Mouse House.  Our group is comprised of non-Disney people.  Easier on the budget too.  Plus maybe we would be able to see all the entries, since we completely missed them the last time, as we were out and about seeing other stuff.  But Medieval Times was worth it. 

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1 hour ago, Roktman said:

My big pet peeve is what was mentioned a page or two ago about all the guys who rush to make a reservation, and then a few weeks before the Show, cancel. Sure, things happen last minute, but not the dozens of rooms that suddenly become available. But by then buying a last minute plane ticket is astronomical.  

Mark Persichetti was saying last week that the Colorado (2013) show was looking like they were going to have a large shortfall in the required convention room nights at the hotel.   The hotel staff worked with the local committee to get some attendees who were at the hotel but not in the convention rate block accommodated.   They also got some people from overflow hotels rebooked into the convention hotel.   They still came up short and it was going to cause the rent on the convention space to go from 5 grand up to 13 grand.  The local committee bought 12 room nights at the hotel that went vacant to save the 8 grand upcharge.

 

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Having been at the 2007 Anaheim Nationals and worked it, the issue with the computers was simply that the hotel hosting would not allow us to use our registration program on their computers. Otherwise it was going to be an additional $1800.00 charge. We found out too late that we couldn't bring in our own computers that had all the registration information, or again: an additional charge. Therefore we had to use their computers and hand enter everything since they would not allow our software on their computers. There were other issues but I'm still trying to recover from Covid and don't have the energy to go over them now.

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5 hours ago, EFGrune said:

The local committee bought 12 room nights at the hotel that went vacant to save the 8 grand upcharge.

 

No point in letting them go unused. In 2005, we were comped several rooms which were used by show staff.

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Thank you Jim. The issue stemmed from when we first got the contract with them for a Nationals, but it was given to someone else. A few years later, we got it and the hotel was compelled to honor the quote, even though it was far lower than they would have given us. Therefore, in an attempt to recoup some costs; they were putting a charge on anything and everything that they could. Thus the fiasco with the computers.

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37 minutes ago, Mark Deliduka said:

Thank you Jim. The issue stemmed from when we first got the contract with them for a Nationals, but it was given to someone else. A few years later, we got it and the hotel was compelled to honor the quote, even though it was far lower than they would have given us. Therefore, in an attempt to recoup some costs; they were putting a charge on anything and everything that they could. Thus the fiasco with the computers.

I had such a great time at that show!

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16 hours ago, JClark said:

I waited until the rooms opened up for this year back in October. It all opened at 6am , By 6:03am I couldn't get rooms for the 5 nights needed. That's ludicrous! Fortunately this year there was an overflow hotel connected but next year we won't have that option. So I have the real possibility of having to drive back and forth everyday including when judging for best of concludes at ?am. Plus lets hope they don't charge non hotel staying people parking each and every day.

 

Jim

Jim, Check out the Homewood suites about a mile away.  Currently $833 wednesday through sunday.  Several options with a little searching. 

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3 hours ago, JClark said:

But my point being Pete, I need to be at the convention hotel. Not off campus.

 

Jim

Yeah. The NCC had an informal get together on Thursday before judging and one of the topics of discussion was Omaha room block reservation  ‘feature’.  One solution discussed was adding 10 rooms to the local staff & board block.  That got Eileen’s pen working taking notes  

Len, did that suggestion get flowed up to you?

 

 

 

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  • 9 months later...

Here's an idea that'll get feathers ruffled: Move the IPMS headquarters back to its place of origin (Dallas, Texas/DFW area) and hold the nationals at the US headquarters each year. It's centrally located, accessed by major East/West and North/South interstates, huge airline hub, plenty to see and do for families, has a robust modeling community, and would be ane excellent location to establush a museum dedicated to model making. 

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While that sounds good, its is moire difficult  in reality. The headquarters needs to be where the National Office Manager is for her to be able to do her job efficiently, and in this case that's Florida. There are also tax implications as to where we are headquartered. Then there is where all the inventory is stored (past issues of magazines and other "stuff") I wish it was all just that simple, but it never is, is it?

 

Edited by Ron Bell
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North Central Texas has never recovered from the 2000 convention in Dallas and have no desire to try it again.   I had already been working on the show planning since ‘97.  The show doesn’t happen by magic.  IMO the other clubs in the DFW Metroplex would feel the same.  Bring in a professional company to run it. 

Go back through this thread and note the top tier concept.  Dallas is a top tier city, as is Arlington, Plano, McKinney, Grapevine, and FtWorth.  Get up to Frisco and you still have to pay handsomely for the privilege of using JerryWorld North.   Other locations will not support the size/density of the Nats.  And, once you have toured the Frontiers of Flight museum what would bring you back in successive years?

My recommendation to whatever powers that be are to get rid of the requirement to hold the show in the summer months.  That would open more locations which are currently cost prohibitive ‘in season’.   

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Ed,

The usual reply to holding the national convention in months other than the summer is that many people either cannot get off work other than in the summer or have children in school and they can't get away. The complaints when the convention is held "too late" in August due to the start of schools is a constant reminder of this. As to bringing in a professional company to run it, we could do that but the cost of attending would soar as such companies have high rates and some even get a share of the 'gate'. And as to having one steady location, a large part of the attendance at these shows is from either local modelers who come for the day or those that can drive in if the show is within a reasonable distance. Holding the show in one location over and over would effectively exclude all those who don't live within a reasonable driving distance of that location. Couple all this with our lopsided space needed/room night ratio and the choices narrow down quickly. 

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What are the demographics of attendees for Nationals? Most members I see at contests, club meetings, etc. tend to be of the age quite beyond where they are parenting school age children. I’d put it at less than 20% of membership has to worry about children & school schedule conflicts with moving the Nats to earlier or later in the year. 

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At the nationals I see middle aged and younger guys, jut the ones we want to get into the hobby. To make it less accessible to them would seem counter productive. Don't forget a lot of those grey hairs we see at the shows have kids in college and they are just as involved with that as they were secondary school  stuff. And grandparents now-a-days have the same complaint as to school as so many of them are very involved with their grandkids care, school and activities. I know from my 14 years as Second VP and working with the cons that one of the most common concerns/complaint was the start of the school year. 

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