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So, who wants to host in 2024, 2025?


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12 hours ago, jcorley said:

WRT Disappointed Bidders, do what Omaha did: prepare a bid with dates in TWO years.

Columbia did, too.  We bid in '12 for '14, lost that bid, then bid in '14 for '16.  If you plan it well, there's not much rework to do on the bid package--do a price check, amend the numbers, and present the bid.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

James I had a blast at Columbus! It might be possible for me to attend as my brother lives there and I could save tons of money by staying with him. I wouldn't even have to rent a car as he has an extra.

 

Now if I could only save enough to actually go....provided they get it again.

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On 2/2/2022 at 9:02 PM, jcorley said:

From the minutes:

"The board is open to proposals from all areas of the US to host the 2024 IPMS/USA National Convention. Hosting proposals can be put forth by individual chapters or regional "teams" with members from multiple chapters in key roles."

 

Does this mean there are no bidders? What exactly does it mean?

Yes, inquiring minds would like to know.

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On 2/3/2022 at 6:19 PM, bonanf35 said:

Ralph, is SC interested in doing another one? I loved everything about the show.

Since my two terms as Chief Cook and Bottle Washer in the Columbia chapter are over and I'm back in the peanut gallery, I'm not in a position to officially comment.  The Columbia chapter is under new management, so anything is possible...

Cheers!
R

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9 hours ago, bonanf35 said:

There are currently no bids for the 2024 convention. 

I honestly can say I'm not surprised with COVID variants still bouncing around and God only knows what gas prices may be.  Until the world stabilizes and Russia gets the hell out of Ukraine, I for one would be thinking long and hard before committing my chapter to such a costly endevour.  Maybe the E-board should consider some "incentives" for the 2024 host chapter(s) to prime the pump.

Just a thought.

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There may well be chapters investigating the possibility of hosting, but rising costs and a good economy make that difficult. In 1998 we hosted the nationals in Santa Clara - the heart of booming Silicon Valley! - but our bid was put together in 1996, after a sharp economic slowdown in late 1995, when the convention center was eager to book space. By 1998, the economy had come roaring back and the convention center people would have loved for us to cancel so they could get some real, paying business! 

Right now, the economy is on the rebound, corporate live events are booming back and we may be forced to compete with two years of pent-up demand from other organizations. Having watched the ebb and flow of these things since 1995, this is just part of the broader pattern for the event. 

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On 4/1/2022 at 8:25 PM, ShutterAce said:

Once you interrupt a pattern of behavior it can be difficult to get it back. The fact that the process was interrupted for a year is most likely the cause...

...the convention has been a bargain for years. The cost is likely to rise greatly for the attendees in the near future. Perhaps it should have already. ...

Interesting observations.  I quite agree that interrupted patterns are difficult to reestablish.  Whether the interruption was the primary cause is debatable; I personally don't adhere to that belief.  But it is, I think,, a factor.  Which leads us to ....

In  other venues, on other threads, I have observed that the cost of attending a major convention has gone up, is going up. and will go up more.  My wife, who attends several in her areas of interest, has noted the same.  And we haven't factored in the cost of travel ... I checked some airline fares last night and noted that (1) they have really gone up, (2) flight availability and convenience has declined,  and (3) the flights are still filling up.  Combine that with the "cheap bastard" phenomenon and convention planners now have to be more concerned about attendance than previously.

Yet another factor is the issue of having enough main convention hotel rooms to hold a significant fraction of the attendees, without regard to the cost.  My wife is attending a big quilting show/contest later this year and the convention hotel rooms went at $279  ... and sold out within three hours.  This fall, at another convention, the hotel has now released two additional blocks of rooms ... prices went from $129 to $159 to $189 ... and sold out.  However, even if the convention hotel is completely committed to the Con, it usually cannot hold enough attendees to make the convention a success -- there need to be some number of attendees staying at other hotels. 

I have also noted that, in our neck of the woods, the number and the content of local contests has dwindled.  Apparently no regional again this year (BTW, IMHO, slapping a last minute "Regional" label onto an existing one day contest does not make it a Regional).  It seems that, other than the one day quickie, clubs have lost enthusiasm for larger, longer, more extensive contests.  I hold that the primary cause of lack of bids is the "let somebody else do it" zeitgeist.  If that spirit leads to a year without a Nats, IPMS will need to take a very hard look at what we are all about.

It is getting interesting.

Edited by Highlander
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That begs the question; How high do gas prices have to get before forcing participants to stay home; $5.00, $6.00 a gallon?  I recall asking the same question when gas flirted with $3.00 a gallon and that didn't seem to affect attendance that much.   Walk-in traffic is responsible for a considerable chunk of earnings for our convention.  I live in Oklahoma and prices here are a bargain compared to the rest of the country.  For me, I would probably draw the line at $5.00 a gallon.  It will be interesting to see what prices are when the Nats roll around.  As I said, it's no wonder there are currently no bidders.

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22 hours ago, Highlander said:

Interesting observations.  I quite agree that interrupted patterns are difficult to reestablish.  Whether the interruption was the primary cause is debatable; I personally don't adhere to that belief.  But it is, I think,, a factor.  Which leads us to ....

In  other venues, on other threads, I have observed that the cost of attending a major convention has gone up, is going up. and will go up more.  My wife, who attends several in her areas of interest, has noted the same.  And we haven't factored in the cost of travel ... I checked some airline fares last night and noted that (1) they have really gone up, (2) flight availability and convenience has declined,  and (3) the flights are still filling up.  Combine that with the "cheap bastard" phenomenon and convention planners now have to be more concerned about attendance than previously.

Yet another factor is the issue of having enough main convention hotel rooms to hold a significant fraction of the attendees, without regard to the cost.  My wife is attending a big quilting show/contest later this year and the convention hotel rooms went at $279  ... and sold out within three hours.  This fall, at another convention, the hotel has now released two additional blocks of rooms ... prices went from $129 to $159 to $189 ... and sold out.  However, even if the convention hotel is completely committed to the Con, it usually cannot hold enough attendees to make the convention a success -- there need to be some number of attendees staying at other hotels. 

I have also noted that, in our neck of the woods, the number and the content of local contests has dwindled.  Apparently no regional again this year (BTW, IMHO, slapping a last minute "Regional" label onto an existing one day contest does not make it a Regional).  It seems that, other than the one day quickie, clubs have lost enthusiasm for larger, longer, more extensive contests.  I hold that the primary cause of lack of bids is the "let somebody else do it" zeitgeist.  If that spirit leads to a year without a Nats, IPMS will need to take a very hard look at what we are all about.

It is getting interesting.

Hi David,

Thanks for your feedback. I'd like to focus on your last paragraph. The notion that a day will come when no one bids on a nationals is a very real possibility and one of the reasons I chose to run for national office. We are making significant progress behind the scenes, details to be released soon, on how we're thinking about it and ultimately dealing with it. 

If interested in supporting the initiative, I'd encourage you or any other member to reach out to me. I'm happy to discuss our thoughts, gather your feedback, and take any help offered. 

Cheers,

John 

Edited by bonanf35
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1 hour ago, bonanf35 said:

We are making significant progress behind the scenes, details to be released soon, on how we're thinking about it and ultimately dealing with it. 

A standing set of Blue/Gold Convention teams and a rotation of set locations with contract guarantees have been proposed several times and it may be time to revive the idea given the expense and lack of bidders.

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After attending closely to these interchanges, I conclude that the IPMS approach, although imperfect, is really pretty good.

As I have said elsewhere, I was/am involved in a major national convention for another hobby.  The structure for that convention is that the National Office owns the convention while the local chapter largely organizes and executes it.  Thus National could and has and does direct various aspects of funding, programming, content, advertising, timing ... and theoretically has final say on most everything.  Which might be fair, because National signs all the contracts and pays all the bills.  So, if there is a disaster, National bites the bullet and our local chapter is financially in the clear.  The local club provides the foot soldiers and "middle management" for the national convention.

HST, the issue here is that communication between National and the local club is critical, but has been problematic.  Thus, the local club makes decisions because someone has to and National -- which is not keeping itself constantly informed -- often asks if the decisions can be changed.  National can be pretty uninvolved until somebody at National wants to make a decision and discovers that it is really too late.  BTW, nobody has bid for 2023 or 2024 for a national convention.

IPMS lays the responsibility on the local chapter ... where people know what is going on locally and can adapt and improvise and make timely decisions.  It seems that the IPMS Board pretty much runs the contest and has a few meeting and the local chapter does everything else ... and bears most of the financial responsibility.  It seems more efficient but is riskier for the locals.

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1 hour ago, Highlander said:

After attending closely to these interchanges, I conclude that the IPMS approach, although imperfect, is really pretty good.

As I have said elsewhere, I was/am involved in a major national convention for another hobby.  The structure for that convention is that the National Office owns the convention while the local chapter largely organizes and executes it.  Thus National could and has and does direct various aspects of funding, programming, content, advertising, timing ... and theoretically has final say on most everything.  Which might be fair, because National signs all the contracts and pays all the bills.  So, if there is a disaster, National bites the bullet and our local chapter is financially in the clear.  The local club provides the foot soldiers and "middle management" for the national convention.

HST, the issue here is that communication between National and the local club is critical, but has been problematic.  Thus, the local club makes decisions because someone has to and National -- which is not keeping itself constantly informed -- often asks if the decisions can be changed.  National can be pretty uninvolved until somebody at National wants to make a decision and discovers that it is really too late.  BTW, nobody has bid for 2023 or 2024 for a national convention.

IPMS lays the responsibility on the local chapter ... where people know what is going on locally and can adapt and improvise and make timely decisions.  It seems that the IPMS Board pretty much runs the contest and has a few meeting and the local chapter does everything else ... and bears most of the financial responsibility.  It seems more efficient but is riskier for the locals.

The 2023 Nationals will be in San Marcos, Texas. Additionally, I've had multiple conversations with potential future hosts.

Please message me any context for the late 'decisions.' Anything worth sharing will help influence making future shows better.

Your last statement concerning responsibility is misaligned with the current process. Correct, the local chapter is the main action arm of executing the convention. In fact, they are the heart and soul of the convention and the National Organization is indebted to their service.  However, the National Organization supports registration and bears the financial responsibility. The contest is managed by the National Contest Committee (NCC), which develops the rules and categories, executes judging on Friday night, and communicates the results on Saturday. They work tirelessly from Friday to Saturday in order to get the results ready for the banquet. Another team that is critical to the show's success.

The resource we're developing will clearly communicate the ins and outs of hosting a National Convention. We hope this resource, which evolves every year based on feedback, will incentivize clubs to put a bid in for nationals. I'd also encourage anyone curious or interested in any aspect of the National Convention please shoot an email to  ipmsusa2ndvp@ipmsusa.org 

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As JB VP#2 previously said 2023 is taken care of by San Marcos, Tx return to the plate.  That with 6+ years of planning should be an awesome convention and I am looking forward to attending.

As for 2024, I have lent my hand to all those that have reached out for info for their proposals based on my experience here in Las Vegas and I am sure that that you all will be happy and excited about the bids that will be coming forward soon.

There will be bidders for 2024 and possibly 2025.

 

Joe Porche'

#20296

RC#8

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Probably the single biggest problem in hosting a national convention is venue related. Our display space used vrs. our room night usage is the problem. For the number of rooms we use, the hotel venues available are too small and for the space we need, the number of room nights used is too little for the larger hotels. Number two problem is cost. Those big venues cost big bucks. For example, using just one of the smaller rooms in our local convention center costs over $10,000 a day! This is why our conventions are mostly in the second and even more often third tier convention cities. I'm guessing there are some clubs out there that would take on this task, but the lack of a suitable venue prevents it.  

P.S. it says I'm on the Executive Board, but I rotated off that quite a while ago now. 

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I'm sure that Ron knows, but to share some numbers with our viewers,  the IPMS Bidding Information Packet (my copy is dated March 2018) gives guidance on space requirements as well as the calculations necessary to derive them.   In 2018 the running average of tables required for the contest was 304.  Given an average table dimension of 20 sqft and an 8 foot aisle space between rows of tables (64 sqft / pair of tables) the space required for the contest area is almost 16000 sqft.  Additional space may be needed due to obstructions or additional fire marshal  requirements.   

Vendor space requirement is similarly calculated.   Based on 325 average table count, and noting that the vendor area is generally laid as a pod with a pair of tables , separated by a 4 foot sales gap, as well as the aisle requirement between pods,  the estimated vendor table requirement is almost 18000 sqft.

The total space required is approximately 34000 sqft based on 2018 numbers, and we may be victims of our own success.   We have spaced ourselves out of smaller, less expensive venues.  But at the same time we are too small for some of the larger metropolitan venues  where the cost of space is more.  

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On 2/1/2022 at 4:40 AM, Ralph Nardone said:


And who knows?  If someone on your organizing committee in, say, Daytona Beach, San Diego, or Jacksonville, has an "in" with the CVB, you might get lucky...

It is the age old thing.  You never get anything if you don't ask.  What's the worst that can happen?  They can tell you "no".

 

Ralph, much as I would love to see San Diego, knowing how much attendees complain about the cost of rooms, the convention center down town is out of the question.  The best room rates in July and August are at least $250.   I believe that IPMS San Diego approached us(San Diego Model Car club) about cosponsoring a bid and I think that just went no where fast.  A lot of discussion about what happened in Anaheim(yes, bad news travels far and fast and takes a very long time to die!).

  I personally like the Florida ideas.  Jacksonville would be nice.  How about Pensacola?  Home of the Blue Angels.  We had the home of the Thunderbirds last year.  Give equal time to the Navy.  I have a sister who lives in that area and it appears that the price of a convention could be reasonable.  Lots to do in the area also.

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Pete it's too bad that people still hang on to the past like that. San Diego might be a great place if it is not scheduled anywhere around Comicon. Unfortunately, that is not possible as Comicon is always scheduled the third weekend in July.

 

I would also love to see Pensacola do a Nationals. I have two sisters, my mom and a nephew that live there too. Talk about saving on hotel costs! Oh well, a man can dream.....

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