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Masks for judges at the Nats??


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Ok...like a good little member I originally asked this question down in the Judging Topic arena....now AFTER A WHOLE MONTH OF WAITING, I'M ASKING IT UP HERE IN THE GENERAL AREA:

I have a question for Chief Judge Pesichetti, and/or any category Head Judge:

In the most recent Journal I received this week with the write up of rules changes and procedures for judging in Vegas, it is stated that judges will be REQUIRED to wear masks while judging.

I understand that this submission to the Journal was written probably at least weeks ago, if not months ago, and since that time restrictions have been lifted and no masks will be required for any vaccinated attendees at the convention or in the hotel.

In light of this, we judges need to know IF the NCC is considering changing this requirement for masks for the judges at the Nats this year.

I hope Mr. Persichetti or someone else in authority will respond to this question with the latest information ASAP, as it may affect peoples travel plans!

What the "heck" (insert the stronger word of your choice) does it take to get the NCC to monitor the JUDGING topics, especially in the month or two leading up to the Nats!?

And don't give me some baloney about "emailing him directly"...this is a question that concerns ALL Nats judges, no matter their stance on the issue, and deserves a PUBLIC response. Since it wasn't responded to for a MONTH down where only members can see it, now it's here for the world to see!

 

Gil Hodges

#10803

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Thanks Dave.....but you must have skipped reading my last sentence above....

You'd think after almost 45yrs I'd get used to the lack of response from the NCC and their blatant disregard for the membership, and even their judges, but it still rankles me!

 

Gil :cool:

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I saw it. They do not watch the forum and i do not have a reply to my email yet. Personally, I don't see the need for masks if we don't need them at the convention. Only place in Ohio still using them is doctors offices

 

Dave

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Dave, IF you receive an answer to your email please DO NOT put it here.

 

I see NO reason why Mark, or another head judge "empowered" to speak for the NCC shouldn't make an official reply here.

Yes, the NCC may indeed publish an update in the Journal before the Nats. The point I'm trying to convey is that THIS FORUM is an information source for the membership JUST LIKE THE JOURNAL; and that they are RESPONSIBLE for keeping it monitored.

Frankly, if Mark or some "designated" one of them cannot take the time even ONCE A MONTH to come here and see if there's anything they need to be aware of or answer, then they should step aside for Head Judges who WILL! It's called SERVING the membership!

 

Gil

Edited by ghodges
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Gil

Here Here

Love to see any reply from any E-board member to a question on their National Show occurring in 46 Days. 

Also a very important subject regarding the "Contest"

What say you IPMS National Leadership ?

Regards

Bill D

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Why not just keep a mask in your back pocket, just in case?

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9 hours ago, noelsmith said:

Why not just keep a mask in your back pocket, just in case?

Gil has been trying to get the NCC to acknowledge this board for years. And rightly so I might add. That is really what this is about.

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Jim, looking at the header I took this debate to be about whether judges should wear a mask of not at the Nationals. It looks more like a communication problem that is being debated instead.

When I said why not keep a mask in your back pocket just in case, I was not being flippant but taking a pragmatic view. To me that would seem a practical solution on the day and covers the eventuality if a mask actually needs to be worn.

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Hi Noel,

Understood, and you are of course correct about keeping a mask at the ready. I keep a couple in my pocket at work in case the need ever arises. Hasn't happened yet but I'm prepared.

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Noel: Did you read my original question? They (Mark and the NCC) already wrote in the Journal that masks are REQUIRED for judging. I'm asking for an update on that since it was written for publication before restrictions were lifted.

More importantly, no matter your stance on masks, now I want to know why they cannot monitor the OFFICIAL IPMSUSA forums for legit judging questions. And, as I've mentioned, the NCC has a HORRENDOUS reputation when it comes to being responsive to the membership.

Yes, I'd like an answer to the question. But I'm also interested in whether ANYONE ON THE EBOARD will hold them to account for not serving the membership better than they do.

Gil :cool:

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Gil, I am a member of IPMS UK so I don't get the journal.

I just made a pragmatic suggestion about using masks, that was all.

I can fully understand and sympathise with your personal feelings about the apparent lack of communication, but do not wish to get pulled into this debate further. Hope you get this resolved with the exec.

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While, of late, this Forum has been, usually, responsible and mature in it’s discussions, there was a time, not so long ago, when the posts were puerile, vituperative and argumentative when they were not downright insulting, particularly when referring to the NCC and the E-Board. (We have all been guilty of this at one time or another, myself included.) The conversations I have had with some former and current members of IPMS leadership when discussing the value of the Forum as a communication tool, therefore, revealed their, perhaps, understandable disdain for it. Additionally, it has always represented the ideas and opinions of such an insignificant number of members that the leadership could be excused for not regularly utilizing it to take the pulse of the organization.

Now, the Journal, on the other hand, reaches every member. The Chief Judge made his position clear in the issue before last: be prepared to wear a mask while judging. So, if one plans to judge, bring a mask. If there is a last minute change to the contrary, leave it in your suitcase in your hotel room. And why not wait until the last minute to make a final decision? Mark could say you do not need a mask today, and four weeks from now, a surge might require him to change it again. Based on his latest directive, we are now prepared for any contingency. 
 

Nick 

 


 

 

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Sorry Nick, but I totally disagree, not with what you say about the masks, but your giving them a pass on ignoring this forum.

I may not always be an agreeable person when it comes to IPMSUSA policies, but I do believe I've always been a FAIR person. I am NOT asking for Mark to change any policy he's empowered to make. I'm asking for an update!

The very suggestion you wrote would be a perfect example of such an update...."we're not sure at this point, but we MIGHT need to still require masks, so be prepared"! The problem is, it comes from you, and not from Mark or another NCC member empowered by Mark to pass along an "official" update.

There are enough Eboard members here, past and present, that this forum stays up to date on their business. In fact THEY post their minutes here somewhat regularly for the few of us interested in the business of the Society. And yes, you are correct in that does represent very few of the entire membership; and yet THEY do so. What makes the NCC think they're less responsible to the membership than the Eboard?

On the other hand, the NCC ONLY posts once a year in the Journal. They've never even bothered to simply repost what they put in the Journal HERE, and how hard would that be? Heck, up until a couple of years ago, until myself and a few others pushed the issue, the NCC meeting at the Nats was CLOSED to the general membership, and generally not even posted so anyone interested would know when to attend if they desired! It was even clear they did not really want any of the judges there either. EVERY public action they've taken for decades has only reinforced the idea of the NCC being some sort of secret Cabal that looks down on the members it serves!

Sorry, but asking them to monitor and use this forum hand-in-hand with the Journal is NOT asking too much of the NCC, though it seems to be more than they are willing to do.

 

Gil :cool:

 

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The UK Government have announced today that all Covid restrictions in the UK will be lifted on July 19th thanks to our vaccine rollout, possibly more herd immunity and big reduction in Covid hospitalisations. 

Hopefully Telford will take place in November this year and we can once again welcome guests from the USA and other countries.

I wish IPMS USA well with your Nationals regardless of whether masks will have to be worn or not

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23 hours ago, ghodges said:

Sorry Nick, but I totally disagree, not with what you say about the masks, but your giving them a pass on ignoring this forum.

I may not always be an agreeable person when it comes to IPMSUSA policies, but I do believe I've always been a FAIR person. I am NOT asking for Mark to change any policy he's empowered to make. I'm asking for an update!

The very suggestion you wrote would be a perfect example of such an update...."we're not sure at this point, but we MIGHT need to still require masks, so be prepared"! The problem is, it comes from you, and not from Mark or another NCC member empowered by Mark to pass along an "official" update.

There are enough Eboard members here, past and present, that this forum stays up to date on their business. In fact THEY post their minutes here somewhat regularly for the few of us interested in the business of the Society. And yes, you are correct in that does represent very few of the entire membership; and yet THEY do so. What makes the NCC think they're less responsible to the membership than the Eboard?

On the other hand, the NCC ONLY posts once a year in the Journal. They've never even bothered to simply repost what they put in the Journal HERE, and how hard would that be? Heck, up until a couple of years ago, until myself and a few others pushed the issue, the NCC meeting at the Nats was CLOSED to the general membership, and generally not even posted so anyone interested would know when to attend if they desired! It was even clear they did not really want any of the judges there either. EVERY public action they've taken for decades has only reinforced the idea of the NCC being some sort of secret Cabal that looks down on the members it serves!

Sorry, but asking them to monitor and use this forum hand-in-hand with the Journal is NOT asking too much of the NCC, though it seems to be more than they are willing to do.

 

Gil :cool:

 

So basically this is all a contrived controversy to further a political (within IPMS) agenda?

 

It's bad enough that politics infiltrates every aspect of modern life, but it's really frustrating when it makes an appearance in our hobby, our escape.

 

Bring a mask, place it in back pocket, play it by ear.  Problem solved

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Earlier this morning, I posted the following reply to Gil's complaint against me in his post that started this thread.  I had this particular forum page opened, and another forum page opened to Gil's initial query on May 30th in the section for logged-in members only (in Contests & Judging).  I had intended to post here, but instead I did my copy-&-paste onto the members-only forum -- two pages opened, and I picked the wrong one!  But since this is the particular discussion thread that started with Gil's big complaint, I've now placed my reply to him here, and I will attempt to delete my now-duplicate posting under the other initial May-30th posting by Gil.

 

Okay, Gil, here is my “Official Reply” that you demanded, to answer your immediate question:

Neither the NCC nor I in particular, plan to insist on any masking requirements that are stricter than any local standards in effect during the course of our 2021 convention.

Elsewhere within this site’s forums, on May 14th Convention Chair Bob Lomassaro posted “Nevada just lifted the mask mandate for vaccinated people in all indoor and outdoor public spaces.  The chain of decision-makers for masking requirements at our upcoming show would logically seem to be: Nevada’s Governor, Las Vegas’ Mayor, Clark County officials, then perhaps the Rio’s own local management.  And even within IPMS-USA’s structure, the NCC would follow the decision-making lead of the local planning team and the E-Board.

My comments on this topic within my article in the most recent Journal stated “. . . In addition, all judges should plan on being required to wear masks (bring your own – don’t assume the host chapter will be providing 200-plus masks!). . .” 

My wording of “plan on” is not the same thing as your own careless or sloppy paraphrasing of my statement as being “judges will be REQUIRED to wear masks while judging.”  I have no idea of how or why you made that illogical leap.  The general message that I wanted to convey in my article is that our judges should be prepared in case the local conditions and mask-wearing requirements in Las Vegas have changed again by the time we get to the convention, and perhaps become more restrictive.

You implied that you and so many others need “. . . the latest information ASAP, as it may affect peoples travel plans!”  From that comment of yours, should I infer that, if you may be required to wear a face-mask during judging, you may decide instead to not attend the convention?  If that’s the case, let me assure you we can still accomplish the contest judging whether you show up or not.  If you’re there and decide to participate as a judge, then we’ll be glad to have your assistance again.  But you were not able to assist with the judging for at least eight of the years since 1990 for which I have records, and the judging still got done during those years.  And I don’t care if you wear a mask or not, nor do I care if you’ve received any vaccine shots or not.  Your mask-wearing just isn’t my decision to make.

And what happens if there’s a surge in Covid-19 cases (particularly the B.1.617.2 Delta strain) in Clark County after this July-4th holiday, and by the time our convention date comes up in six-plus weeks, the answer you need to know RIGHT NOW has changed yet again due to changing circumstances?  Nevada is one of the few states categorized as high-risk for Delta-variant exposure – so is your own Florida.  So what you demand I say NOW may be irrelevant in six weeks.  And so, if you do decide to come out to the Las Vegas show, you still may want to follow Noel Smith’s suggestion in his comment posted Saturday, and “Why not just keep a mask in your back pocket, just in case?  If mask-wearing restrictions do happen to come back again by the time our convention starts, I’ll act to assist in their enforcement.  Our closed contest room will not become a hideout for compliance avoidance.  If masks become required again, any judges who don’t want to or refuse to wear one will be invited to leave the room, and come back to judge again at some future convention.

And Gil, you may also want to note that on the Rio’s own website, under its listing of Additional Hotel Details, it still currently states “Masks are compulsory at the property” and “Masks are available to guests”, along with their other guest safety measures.  It might be that they simply have not yet updated their webpage text, but that’s what it says now.  You may want to insist that they clarify their mask-wearing guidelines too, before you make your travel plans.

In your original posting that started this thread, you stated “Ok...like a good little member I originally asked this question down in the Judging Topic arena....now AFTER A WHOLE MONTH OF WAITING, I'M ASKING IT UP HERE IN THE GENERAL AREA:  And within this same thread, you also stated “Frankly, if Mark or some "designated" one of them cannot take the time even ONCE A MONTH to come here and see if there's anything they need to be aware of or answer, then they should step aside for Head Judges who WILL!  Your presumption that I don’t come see what’s posted within our various forums is erroneous.  I usually take a look through them every 2-to-3 weeks, but I also usually do so in what you call the General Area.  So I did not see your original posting of May 30th until I found it yesterday (Monday, July 5th).  Even so, I see that you got thoughtful and reasonably considered replies to it from Nick Fillipone and Chris Bucholtz, and equally thoughtful replies to your reposting here in the General Area, from Nick again, and from Noel Smith.  Often I’ve seen someone who has a question about contest categories, rules, or other contest-related items has already received an accurate answer from other members, and I haven’t felt it necessary for me to be redundant.  But if you feel it’s absolutely necessary that all contest-related queries get “official and formal” replies from me or other NCC members, then I’ll humbly and dutifully try to comply with your demands.

The last time I looked through the forums here was some time in the second weekend in June.  This past Saturday night when checking my emails I came across one from Dave Morrissette that told me about your posting here.  I see that he told you he had forwarded your message to me, and your subsequent replies to him are odd.  He suggested you try emailing me directly (emails sent to NCC@ipmsusa.org go directly to me; that address is listed on our NCC page on this same website, and I’ve listed it at the end of each article I’ve done for the Journal).  But you absolutely rejected contacting me by that route, also insisting that if Dave gets a reply from me, that he “DO NOT put it here.  Those comments by you show me that you’re far more interested in being seen here on the public stage of the IPMS forums agitating against the E-Board, the NCC, and me as head judge, and being perceived as an ignored and aggrieved victim on this forum, than in perhaps being more successful in getting an answer to your question by trying to go directly to me via email.

You also stated above, “You'd think after almost 45yrs I'd get used to the lack of response from the NCC and their blatant disregard for the membership, and even their judges, but it still rankles me!  Really?  You’ve had the same problem for 45 years?  And that would have been with how many chief judges and class head judges on how many different national contest committees over all those years?  Your characterizations in that sentence are a direct personal insult to all those chief judges and class head judges that preceded me and the current NCC, up to now.  I’d say you should look in a mirror to find the source of your continuing dissatisfaction.

And just late yesterday, in your most recently posted comment in this thread, when you state “. . . up until a couple of years ago, until myself and a few others pushed the issue, the NCC meeting at the Nats was CLOSED to the general membership . . .” you erroneously claim credit for my decision to make our NCC meetings open to our convention attendees.  I decided to do so a few years ago based solely on my own years of experience in working within open-government guidelines and directives for our local City Council meetings, and our local and county sustainability and resource-conservation boards.  Whatever comments you might have made to advocate for open NCC meetings were never done in a manner that was effective enough to even get my attention.  No matter whether I “should have” seen comments from you about that particular subject, your choice of delivery method was completely ineffective in influencing my decision.  Sorry.

Within your postings in this topic thread (and in many others), you’ve made quite a rant against the failure of me to reply to you (and by your own vanity projections, to ALL IPMS judges and members) in a manner and timeline satisfactory to yourself.  Let’s take a look at your own failure to perform:

To paraphrase you, What the "heck" (insert the stronger word of your choice) does it take to get the head of the JaxCon shows to provide information about the judging processes at ‘his’ shows, that the NCC has requested!?

At our last in-person NCC meeting at the Chattanooga convention in 2019, we had asked all those members who attended and participated in our discussion of 1st-2nd-3rd vs gold-silver-bronze judging procedures to send us details about how they developed and ran their gold-silver-bronze judging processes at their Regional contests.  You were at that meeting, Gil.  But we never got any follow-up from you.  Some months later, the Covid-19 shut-downs brought a halt to the NCC being able to get any such information from 2020 shows that were cancelled.

In early October 2020, I sent a letter and two survey forms soliciting information on the judging processes used at both local and Regional contests, to our DLC David Lockhart.  I asked him to forward that packet to all our Regional Coordinators, for them to distribute to all the local chapters they oversee.  David did so immediately, and within a week I was getting confirmations from around the country that local chapters had received our surveys.  As part of my solicitation for contest-judging info, I also noted the NCC would like to get info on 2019 and early 2020 contests, since most later 2020 contests were cancelled.

So that request went out to all local chapters NINE MONTHS AGO.  Gil, you are listed as the Chapter Contact for IPMS-First Coast (R-11), and you are listed as the Convention Chairperson for JaxCons from 2009 through 2021 – thirteen years!  You, and your associates who support gold-silver-bronze judging processes, tout how great a job you’ve done at those contests.  But when the NCC says, ‘okay, describe what you’ve done and give us some stats’ to back-up the self-praising, --- well so far, all the NCC has heard back from you about your contests is the faint sound of crickets chirping.  For us to wait nine months and still not get any requested info from you is no big deal – but for you to have waited one month to get a ‘Public and Formal NCC Reply’ from me is an outrage that demands loud and long ranting from you?

So Gil, did Jim Stepanek, your R-11 Regional Coordinator fail to send our surveys and contest-judging-info solicitation to you?  Or had you decided to just blow off our request for contest info from you?  No matter; if you’re either unwilling or incapable of providing requested information to the NCC, we’ll just look for another way of acquiring information about the judging processes at the JaxCons.

And I’ll close by repeating,

Neither the NCC nor I in particular, plan to insist on any masking requirements that are stricter than any local standards in effect during the course of our 2021 convention.

Mark Persichetti
#14324

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Neither the NCC nor I in particular, plan to insist on any masking requirements that are stricter than any local standards in effect during the course of our 2021 convention.

 

Thank You for the Updated Information

Bill D

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Thanks for your detailed, if tardy reply Mark! You claim to check the forum every 2-3 weeks, and YET somehow missed my inquiry in the Judges Topic area...which was down there a FULL 30 days....sorry, but I don't buy it. And, as you yourself said, at least one person emailed you about it, and yet it went unanswered. Perhaps, as I said, if I haven't had the same problem many times getting official responses from the NCC on this forum in a timely manner, I'd be more inclined to chalk it up to an "oops".

Where'd I get the idea the NCC was going to require masks for judging? Hmmmm....that would be the following sentence in the March/April Journal, and I QUOTE: "In addition, all judges should plan on being required to wear masks (bring your own- don't assume the host chapter will be providing 200-plus masks!)..... UNQUOTE....  There is NO modifying sentence after that stating, or even implying, that that policy might be modified by show time. No, I don't think I misunderstood what you wrote in the Journal. And yes, my asking for a TIMELY update to that policy announcement in the Journal, in a COMPLETELY civil and forthright manner, is also well within the bounds of being an IPMS Judge. You can try to backtrack what you wrote, but it's IN PRINT. And why didn't I simply email you directly? Because your policy decisions SHOULD be made PUBLIC here too; not just in the Journal, and not passed on by "word of mouth". YOU are the official, not me!

So.....the Nats judging got done somehow during the 8yrs I missed between 1990 and 2019.....no surprise there! It somehow got done before I ever became a judge and will no doubt continue to do so long after I'm gone! YOU may not be determining your travel plans based on masking policy, but there are those who ARE! My only implication was that people make plans, and knowing WHAT is happening at the convention determines those plans. After all....IF someone cannot wear a mask for hours on end due to health reasons, they may want to plan on a dinner with friends on Friday evening instead of judging. So please don't try to say that I was implying judging won't be done or be successful if masks are indeed needed by the judgement of the NCC, or if I skip judging.

You are the Chief Judge. You have the RIGHT to make policy for our National Contest. I've never disputed that, even when I've disagreed with some of them. My inquiry had nothing to do with GSB, and yet you want to open THAT can of worms by saying I've been unresponsive? Well your both right AND wrong on that. I was part of a group that tried to put GSB forward back when Aris was Chief Judge. I've also been involved in past "polls" that tried to determine what the membership might prefer. So I have been VERY responsive and involved with trying to bring GSB to the attention of the NCC in the past. But after YEARS of butting my head against that stone wall, I decided that the ONLY way to prove my point was to put my money where my mouth was, to STOP trying to convince the NCC, and SHOW the NCC that it can be done. That is why we switched to GSB for Jaxcon several years ago. That is why I will no longer "pester" you, or answer or conduct polls, and am no longer "responsive" to the NCC about GSB. I will repeat myself once more: "IF GSB is ever to become a preferred method of contest judging, it will HAVE to prove itself at Locals and Regionals first, and then simply become the standard at the Nats by acclaim of the membership!" Will that ever happen? Who knows?

You want to take the credit for opening up the NCC meetings at the Nats? GREAT! No matter the reason for the change or who influenced it, it shows that the NCC had a record of NOT being open to the membership for all of the decades UP until YOU chose to make that change. So, I stand by my criticism of the NCC being too closed off and distant from the membership and judges it should SERVE. I'm glad to see such a giant step taken and hope that it helps pave the way for better progress and communication in the future.

I've watched the NCC operate ever since I joined in 1977, and have served as a judge for most of the last 30+ years. In all that time, on the outside AND the inside, I've seen almost nothing to to discount the NCC's reputation of being a "secret, uncommunicative cabal" for most of that time. Only VERY recently, and yes, during YOUR tenure as Chief Judge, has there been any attempt to change that. And since you say you want to continue in that direction, I want to challenge you and the NCC to POST ALL OF YOUR MINUTES AND POLICY DECISIONS HERE, as well as in the Journal. After all, if the Eboard is able to do so, I see no reason the NCC shouldn't be able to to so also.

Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed and thorough answer Mark! I'll simply accept that you and I will probably never see eye-to-eye on these matters. But, thank you for your continued efforts to ram-rod the Nats contest, as it's NO easy job. And IF I do judge in the future, you will have my best efforts and support on that night in the room! Cheers!

 

Gil

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Gil,

I kept minutes for the NCC during my previous stint as Secretary.

You'd be disappointed by these minutes, as all of these decisions were reflected in both the Journal column and updated rules (in red). Very little extra to see. As Secretary, there is a responsibility to make the minutes9f all official IPMS meetings public. In the past, this was also done for the NCC  on request. 

 

Mark,

Thanks for posting. If re-elected, I would volunteer to once again act as the Corresponding Secretary for the NCC on issues like this, notifying the NCC when important questions are asked (not the usual "how can I cheat the OOB rules" strain). I may not post every day or month, but I usually look for updates daily. We can talk in Vegas if you like.

 

James

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That's great to know James! So.....that also means it would take little to no extra effort for what they put in the Journal to be put here too. Paste and copy perhaps? And yeah....I realize it would be read as little or less here than in the Journal....but why should the NCC ignore the one other officially sponsored IPMSUSA outlet?

And Corey...thanks for suggestion. I believe after giving that some thought, you're correct. Why should I continue to try to hold the NCC accountable for paying attention to JUDGING questions on the IPMSUSA JUDGING forum? Especially in the month or two before the Nats cranks up? How silly of me! I guess I should have given them 2 months to reply instead of just one. I stand humbly corrected! Consider it now left alone! 😉

 

Gil :cool:

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Wow!   Just think, of all that model making time that has been used up on the lengthy posts in this thread?

Regarding, responses (or lack of), it must be remembered that IPMS world wide is run by volunteers who give up a substantial amount of their time to keep the society running. So to get this in context, they have to fit this in with infinitely more important facets of life like work and family commitments.

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On 7/6/2021 at 2:22 PM, MarkPersichetti said:

 

Neither the NCC nor I in particular, plan to insist on any masking requirements that are stricter than any local standards in effect during the course of our 2021 convention.

Mark Persichetti
#14324

Ya know...that's really ALL you had to say.

But thanks for the diatribe, bud.

Edited by AndrewWhite
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Gil

       We've had our share of discussions over the years. But I have to say this paragraph really floored me > 

             Where'd I get the idea the NCC was going to require masks for judging? Hmmmm....that would be the following sentence in the March/April Journal, and I QUOTE: "In addition, all judges should plan on being required to wear masks (bring your own- don't assume the host chapter will be providing 200-plus masks!)..... UNQUOTE....  There is NO modifying sentence after that stating, or even implying, that that policy might be modified by show time. No, I don't think I misunderstood what you wrote in the Journal. And yes, my asking for a TIMELY update to that policy announcement in the Journal, in a COMPLETELY civil and forthright manner, is also well within the bounds of being an IPMS Judge. You can try to backtrack what you wrote, but it's IN PRINT. And why didn't I simply email you directly? Because your policy decisions SHOULD be made PUBLIC here too; not just in the Journal, and not passed on by "word of mouth". YOU are the official, not me! 

       In your first post you completely omitted the words (Plan on) And now you are only emphasizing the word (Required) after you put (plan on) back in the sentence.  Quit spinning...The original statement can't be any more clearer so why would Mark have to make any updated stance in relation to this matter ?. He closed the door when he said Plan on...as he stated above. He never said he would outright require them but be ready to just in case by Planning on......My old training officer used to say, think like a firemen, always think 3 steps ahead. Do you really need an update from IPMS, the NCC or E-board on weather (You) should take care of you? think ahead!

     As for the GSB debate another head scratcher. You and others have been talking about this since at least 04. Now you have a chance to formally respond (after as you have said it needs to be proven at the local and regional level) so why on earth do you not respond with information requested by the NCC. This is what you have been waiting and asking for and NOW you decide to not participate, after your side gets a 1 to 2 vote margin of victory in a poll asking the memberships choice of either system. That's why the NCC wanted more information since the margin was so close, lets see what the rest of the country does by sending out this questionnaire. Now is your chance to show what you and other GSB shows do and nothing for 9 months because you're tired of running into brick walls? I would say the wall is down and people are waiting for information. 

  And finally as to watching these forums. You are correct in that at least I have not been in here recently. But as only one member of the NCC I can't speak for everyone on that committee. I can really only answer questions about the class (Aircraft) that I oversee and judging questions in general which you and I have gone around and around on in the past. So to think a member of the NCC can come in here and offer opinion representing the whole group can't happen. The most effective way to communicate with the NCC is to email the NCC. Not post on a discussion group waiting for an answer to your question regardless of how relevant you may feel it is to the general membership. Now if you want to talk aircraft judging/categories, recommendations for said categories and such then I'm all ears. And yes I will try to be more available here on the forums ... If you or anyone else wants to email me with questions here ya go > hornet78@cox.net Hell I 'll even go ya one better and Email back my cell phone if you want to chat...

 

Jim Clark

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