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Again speaking in general, I remember a time in the late seventies and early eighties when any model on a scenic base of any type was considered a diorama. The model had to be all plastic. An open hatch was considered "open topped". Me-262s competed with F-15s because it is a twin engine jet. No contest class has gone through more change than Out-of- the-Box. Change does happen.

Change for the sake of change may be pointless, but turning method into unquestionable dogma is the flip side of that coin. However, change here and  there keeps things fresh and interesting. That's one reason stores change thigs around from time to time.

All the rules need to be reviewed as we go along to accommodate new thinking, technology, and areas of interest. A little revolution, from time to time is a good thing.

Dak

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19 hours ago, PeteJ said:

What it takes is a group of members willing to band together in a constructive way for change, not just a few on a website complaining as individuals.   

True, as exemplified by Rusty & Ed's leadership of the Ships group and Mike M over in Space/SciFi. In addition to what he said about civilian vessels, there have been other changes tried. Some worked out, like large scale subs, and some didn't. If the split is repeatedly done, a category will likely be made permanent.

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Of course, this is not really about changing or adding categories. It’s about placing dioramas in the contest room.

From what I gather, dioramas end up along the wall or in the back of the room because one or two people need special treatment in the form of an electrical outlet. 
 

Evey venue has its own unique problems, but often dioramas are an afterthought to many. Now days we are getting more dioramas because of the adherence to the rules which crowds things even more.

Dak

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I have always been annoyed by the fact that individual dioramas are allowed to take up so much space, while my aircraft or ship entry is squeezed into a crowd of others entries like so many sardines in a can. It makes it hard for everyone to see and appreciate my efforts from all angles!

The NCC should set a size limit on all dioramas: no larger than 12 by 12 inches. This is only fair to all. And think of the space and, hence, money it will save, because we would not have to rent so much space for the Contest Room.  I will bring this up at the open NCC meeting. It’s change. It must be a good idea. 

Nick Filippone, Senior National Judge

 

 

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Oh please! Aircraft have a much favored status in IPMS. If ye are going to limit size, let’s set a limit of 12 inches on the wingspan of airplanes and the length of ships.😱

All I have asked for is for dioramas to be place out where they can be seen better. Nothing more. 

Dak

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DAK

         All you are asking for is that Dio's be placed where they can be seen better. What about everyone else?  It seems to me that you're wanting your favorite front and center at all times with power allowances no matter the cost. Did you know that if power is brought out into the contest room this year for your front and center Dio displays that it will cost the local and thus IPMS  1k per drop ?. When the time comes that you actually plan a national contest then you will really have an idea what all is involved. 

       Everyone wants their respective class up front, Jr's to promote the hobby, Display only's to promote only displaying models as they do in Europe, Now Dio's because Dio's are disrespected along a wall "That has only happened 2 times in 15 years" and then there is the Aircraft are always treated better and have a favored status. Man I have to laugh. Most times we are put in the back of the room because of this misconception that we are favored. In Chattanooga we were in the back, but guess what we had 1 third of the total entries. We're not favored but we are the most popularly attended Class.  Big difference..

    So again since 06 you have had it your way sans two different times and that's not good enough? At the end of the day it's up to the local hosts to manage the room as best they can with all the factors they have to juggle.

 

Jim

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Dak, C’mon. Do you mean to say you could not detect my tongue firmly implanted in my cheek in that post? I just thought it was time for a break from a discussion that has become a little wearisome and repetitive. It’s just not an important enough matter to not be able to joke about. I was only kidding! Yipes! 
Nick

PS. The “appreciate my efforts” was the dead giveaway. Even I am not that self- absorbed. 

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As the convention chairman for Chattanooga in 2019, I can unequivocally state there was only one firm decision made regarding the layout of the model room. That decision was to place the display only models at the front specifically so that they couldn’t be missed.  Other than that early decision, as well as a general table layout, as Mike Idacavage previously stated, all decisions were Mike’s to make based on the practicalities of getting all the models present into the room.  Having lived through those 4 days with Mike, I’ll tell you here and now, the only “favorite” played in determining where models went in that room, was my initial decision to put the display models at the front of the room.  Once that decision was made, everything else was a decision made in the best interests of treating all models as fairly as possible and getting them all into the room.  
 

Aside from that, I’ll offer some other thoughts.  If we have 500 aircraft models and 20 teams to judge them, and 50 dioramas and 2 teams to judge them, practicality says it makes more sense to place the dioramas against a wall and aircraft out in the middle where there is more room to move.  
 

Another thought.  Even if the dioramas are placed in the middle of the room, they are likely to be placed on a group of tables.  A standard table at a contest is 30” wide and either 6 or 8 feet long.  Those tables are usually placed end to end in rows, and doubled up so that there is a display surface of 60” wide by 6 to maybe 80 feet long.  And it’s normally pretty packed with models.  How many different angles are you honestly going to see that you wouldn’t see on a 30” table placed against a wall?

Mike

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Nick, I've been informed to make sure everyone gets you are joking use an emoji. I figured an old hand like you would know that.😜

Jim, I have acknowledged repeatedly every venue has its own problems and sometimes something has to suffer. I think you are wrong about some of your count of when the dioramas were against the wall. In some cases, some are against the wall and some are out on other tables. My main complaint is that in Chattanooga, they were jammed very tight against the wall and that should be avoided even if it means shifting some small classes as things fill up.

I have no problems with the Juniors up front, but I disagree it promotes the art. Too many perceive what we do as childish, without feeding that image we are a kid's group.

When Dios are placed against the wall, early entries tend to be pushed to the back regardless of size. One year someone even put the don't touch sign over one of my small dioramas to make room for their model.

All I am trying to do is encourage a change of perception for future events. I think a number of people are making way to much out of this seemingly taking a simple idea as a personal affront. And the remarks remind me of the discussions around armor models in the Seventies. There are many in IPMS who still feel it is an aircraft only society and fundamentally that is what created AMPS and given IPMS a lot of bad press.

Putting them on middle tables would allow those in the back to be seen faced out to an isle.

Dak

 

 

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Edited by Dakimbrell
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But an emoji makes it too easy. It takes the mystery and intrigue out of it. I am an old hand at a lot of things but not social media etiquette. I plead ignorance.
“ I’m an old man! What’s my name? Take me home.” ( Apologies to Uncle Leo) 

I guess I am just feeling puckish today. 🙄😉😂🤥🙀🤔😜😷😁 Is that better? 
This is all just supposed to be for fun………. isn’t it? 
Nick

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For those going to Vegas, who would like to meet me face to face, have a drink (I think there is a bar in the hotel), or challenge me to a duel (pistols or swords only--no pies, I'm diabetic), here is my picture. I should be in Wednesday afternoon. Don't be intimidated by my dashing good looks or cavalier Harry Flashman like manner.

Dak

 

me WITH KITS.JPG

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13 hours ago, jcorley said:

Yes, fun.

Hobbies are supposed to be fun and relaxing.

Ummmm, disagree with the fun part.  I have friends who's hobby is running triathlons.  I've seen them at the end of a race and they ain't having fun!  Hobbies are more about fulfillment.  Giving you some form of fulfillment that you don't otherwise get.

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Building models has always been work for me. I do enjoy it, but it is never relaxing for me. Nothing wrecks the evening like a clog in the airbrush or an important part dropping to the carpet.

Dak

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Problem is with a different USA chapter having to organise a venue and competition layout each year, it will be impossible to cater for the desires of each and every genre of model builder.

Over here in the UK we have the advantage being a much smaller country in using one dedicated exhibition centre venue year on year. This enables any 'tweaking' to be done to the competition and display areas learning from experience. All entries have to be pre booked, so this allows a bit more flexibility in organising spaces in the competition area.

Edited by noelsmith
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And that's why we broke away from you.  The UK offered order, logic, structure, efficiency, and tradition.  Whereas we preferred mayhem, confusion, unpredictability, and discord.

Which goes a long way in explaining the US.

 

Edited by Highlander
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David, as a fellow countryman of yours said some time ago at Wimbledon.......'You can not be serious!'.   LOL

Mayhem, discord, unpredictability and confusion? Sounds like our UK government dealing with the pandemic!

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The American Revolution was a plot by a bunch of left wing liberals to discredit the British government. All the fighting was fake. There was no war.

Dak

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