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SURVEY SAYS!!! GSB!!!


Rusty White

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Jim Clark made a salient point about a high percentage of contestants not reading the rules properly. From what I have surmised about the IPMS USA Convention judges move models if they are placed in the wrong category? I guess that there must be a lengthy time available for judging to enable this.

At the IPMS UK SMW at Telford we have a very limited time frame in which to judge the models. If models are misplaced or fall foul of the rules they get disqualified, simple as that. The onus is placed on the entrant without exception.

The rules are quite specific. All models have to be pre entered, and it any modeller is unsure about what class to enter they are advised to contact the Competition Secretary before they submit their entry. 

As a judge it is a pity to have to disqualify well made models who's entrant falls foul of the rules.I

Getting back to GSB, golds signify the recognition of a very high level of competence in modelling that would have to be based on a points attained system in the judging, as would the silver and bronze awards.

We used to have a show in the UK named the Model Engineer and Modelling Exhibition that was sponsored by a publisher of model related books and magazines, now unfortunately long gone. They ran the exhibition using the GSB standard, and so the aim was to get a gold rather than a first past the post win with first second or third. The GSB it was felt recognised more modellers for their ability than the First, Second, Third system.

 

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Noel,

The judges use the registration time to look over the various categories they judge to look for possible changes.  This speeds up the judging process.  There are always one or two that weren't caught.  Those are taken care before judging begins officially.

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Rusty, is the registration done on the Friday evening prior to the two days of the US convention? It would explain why judges get the time to move models.

Because at Telford models have to be pre registered, the models have to be placed on the competition table by 11am on the Saturday morning of the show, and judged in a tight time frame in the afternoon immediately after the judges briefing. The competitors will have their entry slips already written up to place by the models. They normally get them either by email or in the post well before the show.

Telford is a dedicated exhibition venue, so only the IPMS UK exec. Traders and Table Exhibitors can have entry on the Friday evening for setting up.

As the US convention is generally hotel based, I would guess that you have a bit more flexibility.

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That’s the difference between a 1 day show and a 3.5 day show.  Modelers register their models and they place them on the table Wednesday afternoon, Thursday, and Friday to 5pm when registration closes.   Judging start at 7pm on Friday. Judges sweep the categories each day to do splits (1:48, Allied, in-line engine versus round engines).  We also sweep for incorrect placement (a 4 engine bomber in a 2 engine category).  
It saves time on Friday night. Some don’t get caught until then, possibly causing a couple of categories to be re-judged (the moved from and the moved to).  That’s why the judges work to get splits and moves done early. Starting at 7pm, it’s not uncommon for the rank & file judges to finish after midnight.  Head judges after that. 
And an unknown fact for most, the contest recorder’s people have just a few hours to prepare the awards list, script for the awards MCs  (the legendary Bill & Aris), take photos for the awards show and for the journal, and prepare for the placement of the awards when the model room closes.  Oh, and get some sleep too. They are shooting for 3pm Saturday to have every task done. 

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Ed, thanks for the explanation about the Convention judging. You guys certainly get a lot more latitude to judge than we do at Telford.

Is the convention open to the public or just IPMS members?   I have often thought about flying over for one.

Telford is a two day show but competitors models have to left on display in the competition area on the Sunday as the show is also open to the entry fee paying public.

Setup is usually done on the Friday and restricted to the UK Exec. Committee, Traders, Branch (chapter) and Special Interest Groups. 

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You must be a national member or a member of a foreign branch to enter a model or judge.  
You do not have to be a member to attend. You pay the daily access rate.  It’s 15 dollars this year.  Day pass attendees don’t get the swag bag given to registrants.   
We have 3000+ entries in 9 classes/130 odd categories.  Takes a while. 
A couple of years back I met Tony, the IPMS UK competition secretary. We were on the civil war battlefield above Chattanooga. I corresponded with him and suggested some sites of interest through the South when he came back to SanMarcos TX.   Then the world fell apart

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Noel,

I'm no longer an official judge, so it's best to ask the Chief Judge about when judging begins.  Registration begins Weds if I'm not mistaken.  As the tables slowly begin to fill up, various judges will paruse the various categories they will judge until the official judging begins, suggesting any possible changes to head category judge.  When I was head Ship Judge, I had everyone take one last look at all the category(s) entries just make certain we had everything where it belonged according to the rules.

FWIW.

 

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Rusty - in the past few shows ships had about total 200 entries.  Aircraft class might have that many in one category (say 1:48 fighter).  Bill Devins established a system where he had judging team leaders designated at the start of the show.  They would start looking at the entries on Wednesday afternoon and begin creating their splits and shuffling things around.  I’ve picked up some of Devins’ pre-registration ideas for use in ships.   Jim Clark is continuing Bill’s processes. 

Unfortunately I have been forced to miss this years show. My wife came down with break-through COVID on Sunday. I followed her on Tuesday.  Hit me kinda hard. I got regeneron yesterday and feel much better

The NCC had been working on alternate judging due to COVID, as well as succession plans. I had a backup, just hated to drop the mess in his lap on late notice. 

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Ed,

IMHO, you have done a more than admirable job as Head Ship Judge over the years.  The ship guys have done well during your leadership and I hope you have many more years ahead.  I seriously doubt you're are the only HJ dealing with COVID.  My prayers are with you and your family.

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I don't know if Jim Clark will see this, but they began moving models into the correct categories Wednesday. I would imagine some prejudice has begun, if only on an individual basis by each team leader.

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Ed, thanks for the further feedback.

I trust that you and your wife are recovering ok from this nasty illness.

Interesting to hear you met Tony Horton our UK Comps Secretary when he was Stateside. He is a really nice guy to get along with.

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Yes, Tony's and my paths had been criss-crossing for several days.   We both went through Memphis and Nashville,  and both had been to the Jack Daniels whisk(e)y distillery before ending up in Chattanooga.  Toured the civil war battlefield and rode the inclined railway down to the bottom of the hill to get some ice cream.   There I saws this chap wearing a Lancaster bomber t-shirt and I figured that he had to be one of us modelers.  I struck up a conversation and found that he was one of IPMS-UK's members.   Our paths crossed again several more times over the next few days.   Last I saw of him he was walking away after winning one of the Tamiya P-38 raffle kits.

I wrote Tony suggesting some stops for a 2020 trip part of the San Marcos, TX tour.  Learning that Tony liked to indulge a bit, so I started him off in Fredericksburg, TX.  It is the best wine producing area in Texas (Texas wine? Pffft you say!)  Also some bourbon and rum distilleries.   Fredericksburg is the boyhood home of Admiral Nimitz and the site of the Museum of the Pacific War.  It is an excellent stop   I got him through Houston and NASA to New Orleans.  New Orleans; music, food, culture, and the home of the National WWII museum. From there, through Mobile Alabama and the museum at the USS Alabama then on to Pensacola and the naval air museum.

But, like I said, the world changed.   If you can work it out, plan on 2023 when IPMS-USA is going to try San Marcos again

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How could “some prejudice” have begun, “ if only on an individual basis by each team leader “ when neither the teams nor their leaders have been appointed yet and won’t be until Friday night? Nor will the categories they will judge be assigned until then. 
Nick Filippone, Senior National Judge

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13 hours ago, JClark said:

How so James ?, all we are doing getting things were they belong,  IE oob without instructions.We are also making room, since alot of categories are very cramped. But I'm not sure what you are referring to by Prejudice ?

 

Jim

Oy, frikkin autocorrect

Prejudge, not Prejudice (prejudging)

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Interesting to compare how the UK (the Godfather of IPMS) and the US differ in the approach to judging.  I was particularly interested in the UK using a process to disqualify models; our approach is that each model deserves to be judged.  Thus the effort to see that each entry is in its most logical category prior to the start of judging.  That requires a considerable amount of effort from the first entries being placed on the tables, continuously to the official start of judging, and then, in a few cases, after judging has begun.  Entries moved after judging begins may result in rejudging the categories into which the vagabond entry is placed.

But every model deserves to be judged.

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Highlander, there are significant differences in how the UK and USA run their respective annual competitions. In the UK we have constraints imposed due to the use of a commercial exhibition centre. Friday is a general trader and display stand set up day. Our competition entries  go onto the table on Saturday morning up to mid day and judged within a tight time frame in the afternoon. The competition area has to be opened again late afternoon so that 1 day visitors get a chance to see the winning entries. The USA competition tends to be based around a hotel with exhibition hall facilities so you have more time and flexibility to deliberate at length whilst judging and move models about. At Telford the halls have to be cleared of people by 6pm on the Saturday and 5pm on the Sunday.

That is why competitors who do not place their models in the correct category or fall foul of any other rules get disqualified. It may seem draconian, but we simply do not have the luxury of being able to judge in a more leisurely fashion long into any evening.

It's just the way it is unfortunately. SMW is such a big show now that IPMS UK has to use a large commercial exhibition centre and the constraints that go with it

 

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