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KurtLaughlin

3-D printed models prohibited?

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Noel,

I agree with you.  While most of my business is kit buildups, I also do scratchbuilding when called for.  There's a special feeling you get from creating something that has never existed in any form.  The same can be said for books.  While I write ebooks, the print books I've written provide more pleasure in the process.  Also, reading an ebook on a screen is convenient but it doesn't compare to the tactile sense you get by holding a physical book in your hands and the feeling you get when turning the pages.

There's a place for both scratchbuilding and kits, as well as a place for ebooks and physical books.  I suppose the trick is to find the proper balance.  Incidentally, I'm including a couple of  photos of a land development model I built some ten years or so ago.  Totally scratchbuilt except for the cars on the road.  Four and a half feet wide and seven feet long.  The other pair of photos is a 1/160th model of a $1,000,000 mansion design.  This one  was 100% scratchbuilt from sheet styrene.  Over 200 hours in it and the last photo I saw of it after it was delivered, it had already sustained significant damage.  How or why I don't know, but I figure it didn't last long after that.  Anyway, hope you enjoy viewing the photos.

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2 hours ago, noelsmith said:

Things do move on, but it would be sad if totally hand crafted models get dismissed because something could be made accurately and repetitively on a CNC machine. Modifying a drawing to remake on CNC is easier than scrapping a part and having to make it again by hand. The only machinery I use is a small Emco Centre lathe and milling machine (both manually controlled) but most of my work is done by hand from raw materials. Compared to kit building and detailing it gives me more satisfaction and pleasure having to get my head around the numerous problems encountered along the way when scratch building. At the end it is nice to look back and think ' I made that, every bit!'

Noel, I agree with you.  I have a Sherline mill and lathe and my scrap pile is about 5 times the size of my completed parts pile.  I get a great deal of pleasure in figuring out how to work with raw bar and rod stock to get what I want.  It is very time consuming, but in the end, I get far more pleasure out of the creative process that I ever do from picking up a trophy.  

clips test fit.jpg

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I also have a Sherline lathe and mill.  Costly, but the best was worth the investment.  I bought everything for a bargain basement price from a modeler who was getting out of the hobby.  It included a ton of "attachment tools" I have yet to use.  Learning every day.

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You got some nice equipment there Rusty.  Sherline has a good reputation in the mini machine market. Although now made stateside, did you know that Sherline originated from Australia? There are some nice little machines for model makers by Emco, Proxxon, Peatol and Cowells to name a few more as well.

Edited by noelsmith

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6 hours ago, noelsmith said:

You got some nice equipment there Rusty.  Sherline has a good reputation in the mini machine market. Although now made stateside, did you know that Sherline originated from Australia? There are some nice little machines for model makers by Emco, Proxxon, Peatol and Cowells to name a few more as well.

They are quite proud of that fact.  At one time you could by the Sherline from Sears under the Craftsman name brand. The owner Joe Martine set up a museum in Carlsbad, California know as the Joe Martin Craftsmanship museum.  If you are ever in So Cal you really should stop and see it.  It is just chock full of amazing work. I spoke to Joe many times when I was there buying something.  He passed away a couple of years ago, but had the foresight to set the company and museum up well to continue after him.  

 I am lucky in that I live about 15 from both the factory and the museum.  Well, lucky and unlucky.  It is far too easy sometimes to just run up and pickup a tool that I could use right now for a project.  Great people work there.  Always willing to give you time to talk you through something.  It seems that everyone who works there is really into what they do. 

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7 hours ago, noelsmith said:

You got some nice equipment there Rusty.  Sherline has a good reputation in the mini machine market. Although now made stateside, did you know that Sherline originated from Australia? There are some nice little machines for model makers by Emco, Proxxon, Peatol and Cowells to name a few more as well.

Thank you.  I had no idea Sherline began in Australia.  I agree about Proxxon as I have an excellent hobby saw from them.

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Pete, having looked at the Joe Martin Craftsmanship Museum may times in the past, all I can say is that it any model maker wants to be inspired, regardless of subject interest have a good look on there. The late dentist from Hawaii who made those  aluminium skeletal aircraft models, wow!         Rusty, Sherline has a good website with many links. I expect you may have looked it up already.

Edited by noelsmith

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16 hours ago, noelsmith said:

Pete, having looked at the Joe Martin Craftsmanship Museum may times in the past, all I can say is that it any model maker wants to be inspired, regardless of subject interest have a good look on there. The late dentist from Hawaii who made those  aluminium skeletal aircraft models, wow!         Rusty, Sherline has a good website with many links. I expect you may have looked it up already.

Dr. Parks aircraft(all three of them) are spectacular but the think louis Chenot's Duesenberg SJ is the real crown jewel.  The craftsmanship is just beyond anything I have ever seen,  

 

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Pete, as my main interest is classic cars, particularly from the 'Golden Age' I have followed Louis Chenot's Duesie build with great interest. What a fantastic model. I think it is in 1/6th scale from what I can remember. I also seem to remember that the engine is a fully working miniature of the original and there may be a Utube video showing it being tested. What a remarkable model. Just out of interest there is a picture somewhere that I have seen where the late Dr. Park was visited by famous model maker Gerald Wingrove.

Edited by noelsmith

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7 hours ago, noelsmith said:

Pete, as my main interest is classic cars, particularly from the 'Golden Age' I have followed Louis Chenot's Duesie build with great interest. What a fantastic model. I think it is in 1/6th scale from what I can remember. I also seem to remember that the engine is a fully working miniature of the original and there may be a Youtube video showing it being tested. What a remarkable model. Just out of interest there is a picture somewhere that I have seen where the late Dr. Park was visited by famous model maker Gerald Wingrove.

That is correct, it is 1/6 scale and it is a stunning creation.  The engine does run although it hasn't in a while.  Like most models of this type it just wasn't meant to run a lot.  Too may tiny and delicate parts.  I admire all the skilled craftsman who have models in this museum.  I am a bit surprised that they don't have a Wingrove model.  There miniature fire arms displays are also quite interesting. 

 

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Pete, the Dusie engine I think was ran just once  to prove it out before going into the model. Gerald Wigrove is now retired and living in Spain. He emailed me some time ago to say that he still keeps his hand in for his own pleasure now. Maybe the Craftsmanship Museum should approach him?

Edited by noelsmith

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Or it could be argued that you are using the tools available. I'm sure our ancestor craftsmen would have chosen a  24volt cordless drill over a hand crank auger.

I design my own parts in 3D. I research the subject, obtain as many drawings as possible, model the parts up in 3D CAD and any kit parts that may mate up to them. I send the parts out to be 3D printed then clean up and assemble the parts.

No injection kit exists of this Matilda Conversion.There is a resin conversion but it is inaccurate and does not compare to the photos. No drawings exist of it either, only a few photos.

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So I used the Tamiya kit to base my dimensions and reversed engineered the new parts based on the photos.

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Designed a sprue:

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And 3D printed the parts:

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Added some additional details I test fit them to the kit and adjust if needed.

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I have the skills to scratch these parts but why if there is an easier, more accurate and less time consuming alternative.

What would this entry be considered?

I am currently designing parts for this Soviet SPG concept.

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How do I convey to judges at a national show that I designed my own parts? And would they care? Or would "cheating" like this be a mark against me?

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Bryan,

You raise some very interesting points.  It also confirms what I have said that creativity/skill originates in the mind.  How it is manifested physically is the result of a multitude of factors, such as visual, tactile ability,  physical limitations, etc.  Now to your other questions. 

Why scratchbuild when there is an easier alternative?  In a nutshell...for the challenge.  There's a very long history of humans doing things the hard way just to prove that it can be done.  And the areas of their efforts are legion.  Mountain climbing, exploring, deep sea diving, caving and yes, modelbuilding.  Also keep in mind the rather perverse human temperament that...when they are told you can't do it that way...goes out and does it that way just to show that it can be done.

Would this entry be considered?  Depends on the specific contest's rules and/or whether or not a category had been created to deal with your particular creation.

BTW, you do outstanding work.

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I get that. I was just referring to my preference and not the human condition. I don't get a lot of bench time so anything I can do to shave a few hours off a project the better.

Thanks!

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It is really a case of each to their own, their personal skill set, what is available to them and also what they can afford! Bryan has not mentioned where he attained his 3D cad skills or anything about the learning curve he went through, or the cost of the 3D cad program. Maybe he is lucky enough to have been trained as part of his job and has ready access to the software. Nothing wrong with his approach I hasten to add, but for most folk buying 3D cad software is prohibitive because of the high cost. My own take is that it anyone has access and 3D cad drawing experience then it is only natural that they should lean to using this technology. There will now always be two camps in view of 3D printing becoming available. The haves and have nots. Personally I think that there is room for both styles of modelling, depending on your view. Although in a past life I was a CAD CAM programmer I derive much more satisfaction by making things by hand and using basic manual machines. There seems to be a bit of a debate going on about 3D printer parts being used in competition, but as far as I see it they are no different to using a polystyrene or resin moulded part on a mode!. Where it gets a bit heated is the argument about whether  programming 3D parts and making them on a CNC printer can be termed scratch building?

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