Jump to content
66Foxtrot

A question for the 2015 Columbus Ship Judges...

Recommended Posts

I was wanting to know what knocked this model out of contention? :

 

IMG_0551-L.jpg

 

Definitely in my top 3 faves of the convention. I don't know what ship judges look for, but I was really surprised it didn't place.

Any thoughts?

Anyone here actually judge it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have NO idea what knocked this beauty out of contention, but as an ex-head IPMS/USA ship judge, I can tell you that you would be AMAZED how many ships masts don't line up! Yards are bit more complicated as sailing ships yards like the one you mention, tend to tilt some. I have seen masts and fixed yards on BEAUTIFUL models that just didn't line up or were not perpendicular to the deck. Even on subs I have seen many time periscopes, snorkels and antennas that didn't match up. FWIW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible it was moved to a diorama class? Does anyone know if the ship people tightened up the "display" rules as much as the armor guys did (I heard a LOT of tanks got moved)?

 

Since it's definitely "under way", it might be interpreted as showing "action". I don't see any crew, but if it was moved, it might have suffered in the ship dioramas as then being "not enough"....

 

Just speculating, because it looks like a first class effort (as most on the table do til ya start judging....)

 

GIL :smiley16:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible it was moved to a diorama class? Does anyone know if the ship people tightened up the "display" rules as much as the armor guys did (I heard a LOT of tanks got moved)?

 

Since it's definitely "under way", it might be interpreted as showing "action". I don't see any crew, but if it was moved, it might have suffered in the ship dioramas as then being "not enough"....

 

Just speculating, because it looks like a first class effort (as most on the table do til ya start judging....)

 

GIL :smiley16:

 

Gil,

 

The ships rules allow for a water base as long as the vessel is heading in a straight direction. I doubt seriously that the figures would designate it as a diorama. They are so minute, they couldn't possibly tell much of a story. However, weirder things have happened. The only way to know for sure is to contact the judging team that judged (good luck) the entry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have NO idea what knocked this beauty out of contention, but as an ex-head IPMS/USA ship judge, I can tell you that you would be AMAZED how many ships masts don't line up! Yards are bit more complicated as sailing ships yards like the one you mention, tend to tilt some. I have seen masts and fixed yards on BEAUTIFUL models that just didn't line up or were not perpendicular to the deck. Even on subs I have seen many time periscopes, snorkels and antennas that didn't match up. FWIW.

 

Thanks, Rusty....appreciate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible it was moved to a diorama class? Does anyone know if the ship people tightened up the "display" rules as much as the armor guys did (I heard a LOT of tanks got moved)?

 

Since it's definitely "under way", it might be interpreted as showing "action". I don't see any crew, but if it was moved, it might have suffered in the ship dioramas as then being "not enough"....

 

Just speculating, because it looks like a first class effort (as most on the table do til ya start judging....)

 

GIL :smiley16:

Hi Gil,

 

Good idea. No clue as to what happened to it. I think it stayed put, but I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I helped judge Sail, and we had looked at it briefly thinking it was in sail, only to have it pointed out to us that this was entered in Commercial by the builder (for whatever reason) - so i cannot comment directly as to what the other team saw.

It looked really good to me, but I didn't get to give it a good going over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I helped judge Sail, and we had looked at it briefly thinking it was in sail, only to have it pointed out to us that this was entered in Commercial by the builder (for whatever reason) - so i cannot comment directly as to what the other team saw.

 

It looked really good to me, but I didn't get to give it a good going over.

 

Whaaaaa??? Like I said, stranger things have happened, but to enter that in commercial has to be pretty close to the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes you wonder if the commercial guys glanced at it and thought it was in the sailing category and it got missed in the judging!

 

GIL :smiley16:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gil - the Commercial judges were who pointed it out, so I know it was judged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rusty - it was a tea clipper and a late 19th century commercial vessel, so why not? Cutty Sark could similarly go either way. Perhaps the builder thought it would fare better against similarly sized entries?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem at all with his category choice. If he felt it best to enter in Commercial, power to him. I have "tossed the dice" myself in the past as to which category to enter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can tell you there was some strange judging in the sailing class.The third place winner is a weekend build kit.And ther was a Bluenose that was great that didn't get anything.I didn't understand..I was enter in that class too I couldn't find a judge to go over my model to find out what I could have done better.

Rod

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was the builder of this ship and it was not entered in the commercial sailing category. It was entered in the "rigged" category. It was next to the other rigged ships, and if the category placement was that tight then there needs to be better definition of space because I am always very careful to check the category several times before entering. As far as the masts, sails and yard arms go they were about as straight as possible, which is not even appropriate on sailing ships because they move and sway with the wind. I spend many hours and added many details to this model that should have been judged, but whats the point of bitching. I just wont be in any rush to spend spend several hundreds attending a national when judging is no better than most local shows. I dont even want the award, I just want it recognized for the work that went into it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ian, Hi! I saw your ship early in the show and was very impressed. It was beautiful, much better than my Pamir and I was very happy when I saw it was entered in the sailing category and not the commercial category where my Pamir was. I did not, however, "judge" it and cannot say how it compared to the others you were competing against. But I would, respectfully, like to give you a bit of advice on competing: generally speaking, at any level of competition, size does matter. That is to say, a small entry will at a disadvantage compared to a large entry. While some of my fellow judges, I garuntee, are going to take me to task on that statement, it is true often enough that it must inform your thinking when you "strategize" about entry placement. Just between you and I, to achieve the level of detail and finish you did but in such a small scale, should be an advantage-but it is not, usually. I hope you will bring it to a National again. This time, enter it in the commercial category. ( I don't know why I am saying this. I'll probably be in that category again!) The model is excellent and all of we trophy hounds have occasionally found that "second time is the charm." Good luck and congratulations on your superior work! Nick Filipponr, Senior National Judge

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's beginning to sound like it was judged by the wrong team of judges. I suppose with so many models entered, it's possible that such a mistake could be made. Unfortunate, but unintentional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick, that means a lot from you and I appreciate the kind words. I am a sucker for small scale including armor and I have since come to terms with the fact that little is often the kiss of death. Most folks do not realize how much time and effort not only goes into making something so small but also scratch building small pieces to go with it. We have a saying in our club "Bigger is better", but I build for myself and not for shows so I shoot myself in the foot frequently. I did see your Pamir and was glad we were not competing. I do not know how that would have been moved to the commercial category as someone said or why it would but it is over and done now so all the tears have been dried. The fact it was brought up and complemented by the people on this forum is worth much more than the award. Thank you very much.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"We have a saying in our club "Bigger is better",...)

 

When I was a HCJ, I told all the judges exactly the opposite! Bigger is not better! Bigger often means more mistakes, but one must always consider the overal model and the effort that went into constructing it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"That is to say, a small entry will at a disadvantage compared to a large entry."

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT! I can remember several Nats when models only a few inches long won Judge's Grand Award.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rusty won't like this, but again (as I've said elsewhere), IF the NCC was at least monitoring this DF, then we might find out something!

 

The Head Ship judge could refer to the paperwork to see who judged the sailing ships. They could be contacted to do 2 things; first, make sure the model in question WAS judged and didn't slip through the cracks; and second, if they have any comments they want relayed to this discussion.

 

No one expects any of the judge's decisions to be changed. The entire thread was started to find out if it was judged, and if so, what were the impressions of the judges. No one can rationally second guess what the judges saw from a single picture posted.

 

But, without their participation, we're left swinging in the wind once more!

 

GIL :smiley16:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was the builder of this ship and it was not entered in the commercial sailing category. It was entered in the "rigged" category. It was next to the other rigged ships, and if the category placement was that tight then there needs to be better definition of space because I am always very careful to check the category several times before entering. As far as the masts, sails and yard arms go they were about as straight as possible, which is not even appropriate on sailing ships because they move and sway with the wind. I spend many hours and added many details to this model that should have been judged, but whats the point of bitching. I just wont be in any rush to spend spend several hundreds attending a national when judging is no better than most local shows. I dont even want the award, I just want it recognized for the work that went into it.

 

Ian, this model is one of the most incredible works I've ever seen. Hence, my question here.

Truly a work of art.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those thinking that the size makes the difference, then look at Category 423.

 

First place HMCS Ojibwa about 3 inches long.

Second place a large paddle steamer and Third was a Calypso, each of which were over 18 inches long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James, (WTF) those comments and praise are worth more than any award. My sincerest thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rusty - I think those parenthesized letters are referring to James Kelley's screen name...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that is what I was referring too. Did not want James to be confused with another James. Was not violating the rules on purpose. Honest mix up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...