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I am sure that they will put on a great show and I am proud that the state where I grew up gets to put on Nat's again. However, it looks like another Nat's I won't go to. To darned far to drive. 1,500 miles and a very long two days or a reasonable three days from the left coast. Frankly I was hoping for Phoenix, but that just isn't going to happen. Just for the record, I still consider Omaha favors the east because it is about a days less drive. I am disappointed because I was looking forward to attending Nat's again after a long dry spell. :smiley13:

Edited by PeteJ

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Omaha is as pretty much dead center as you get. to drive from Boston to Omaha it's about 21 hours to drive from San Marcos to Omaha it's 22 hours. Not sure how much more centralized you can get than that.

 

just my 2 cents.

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Omaha is as pretty much dead center as you get. to drive from Boston to Omaha it's about 21 hours to drive from San Marcos to Omaha it's 22 hours. Not sure how much more centralized you can get than that.

 

just my 2 cents.

True, but I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend 6 days(out and back) driving to go the Nat's. That 4 additional hotel nights and gas. Phoenix would have been an easy days drive. Not that it matters to anyone but we west coasters but that means that there will have been at least 5 middle or east Nats until we get something we can drive to reasonably. Yea, I know west coast is not convenient for the east coasters. I'm just kind of disappointed that they didn't give a little more consideration to Phoenix. I got a bit excited when Phoenix bid. I'm just disappointed, but I am sure the modelers from the flyover states are excited.

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It's always a tough job for the Eboard when they have two bids that are both VERY good! I sat through the bid session. Both made good presentations and answered any and all questions. Both were set up for the same facilities that they used for their previous Nats, so the board knew what they could expect from both experienced hosts as well as their respective facilities. It's unfortunate that only one of them could be picked.

 

I'm hoping that perhaps the Phoenix guys will go back and see IF they can get the same deal for 2018 as they bid for the 2017. After all, it's all "future business", so why wouldn't their facility want them the next year? Anyway, it would be great if they'd take another shot at it if it was feasible.

 

GIL :smiley16:

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Omaha is as pretty much dead center as you get. to drive from Boston to Omaha it's about 21 hours to drive from San Marcos to Omaha it's 22 hours. Not sure how much more centralized you can get than that.

 

just my 2 cents.

True, but I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend 6 days(out and back) driving to go the Nat's. That 4 additional hotel nights and gas. Phoenix would have been an easy days drive. Not that it matters to anyone but we west coasters but that means that there will have been at least 5 middle or east Nats until we get something we can drive to reasonably. Yea, I know west coast is not convenient for the east coasters. I'm just kind of disappointed that they didn't give a little more consideration to Phoenix. I got a bit excited when Phoenix bid. I'm just disappointed, but I am sure the modelers from the flyover states are excited.

 

yeah that's understandable but I think they did give both a reasonable amount of consideration and if you dont want to spend the 6 day trip to go then you could fly that would save you $$ on your trip.

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I too attended the bid presentation. My guess is that while both were very good presentations, it came down to finances. Phoenix was going to be a much costlier site. Costs were going to be higher for attendees and the estimated margin of profit in their budget was much smaller. This emphasizes again how site costs are increasingly limiting our options. Nick Filippone

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Omaha is as pretty much dead center as you get. to drive from Boston to Omaha it's about 21 hours to drive from San Marcos to Omaha it's 22 hours. Not sure how much more centralized you can get than that.

 

just my 2 cents.

True, but I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend 6 days(out and back) driving to go the Nat's. That 4 additional hotel nights and gas. Phoenix would have been an easy days drive. Not that it matters to anyone but we west coasters but that means that there will have been at least 5 middle or east Nats until we get something we can drive to reasonably. Yea, I know west coast is not convenient for the east coasters. I'm just kind of disappointed that they didn't give a little more consideration to Phoenix. I got a bit excited when Phoenix bid. I'm just disappointed, but I am sure the modelers from the flyover states are excited.

 

yeah that's understandable but I think they did give both a reasonable amount of consideration and if you dont want to spend the 6 day trip to go then you could fly that would save you $$ on your trip.

 

It's not that I don't think I would like to go to Omaha, I'm just disappointed that they haven't had something a little closer to the left coast. It will have been a while before another one is within reasonable driving distance.

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Omaha is as pretty much dead center as you get. to drive from Boston to Omaha it's about 21 hours to drive from San Marcos to Omaha it's 22 hours. Not sure how much more centralized you can get than that.

 

just my 2 cents.

True, but I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend 6 days(out and back) driving to go the Nat's. That 4 additional hotel nights and gas. Phoenix would have been an easy days drive. Not that it matters to anyone but we west coasters but that means that there will have been at least 5 middle or east Nats until we get something we can drive to reasonably. Yea, I know west coast is not convenient for the east coasters. I'm just kind of disappointed that they didn't give a little more consideration to Phoenix. I got a bit excited when Phoenix bid. I'm just disappointed, but I am sure the modelers from the flyover states are excited.

 

yeah that's understandable but I think they did give both a reasonable amount of consideration and if you dont want to spend the 6 day trip to go then you could fly that would save you $$ on your trip.

 

It's not that I don't think I would like to go to Omaha, I'm just disappointed that they haven't had something a little closer to the left coast. It will have been a while before another one is within reasonable driving distance.

 

just curious, what is considered reasonable? To me reasonable (a day trip) is between 12-15 hours. Did you have the chance to go to Colorado?

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Pete, speaking as a former national officer, so I have some background. I live very close to Omaha, but I'd have gone to either site in 2017. I've been to nationals hosted by each group multiple times and they both have done a wonderful job. But after listening to both bids as they are presented in an open meeting. I truly felt the Omaha bid presentation was superior. Omaha had been working on their bid for over a year while the bid from Phoenix was put together in the last few months , and many details were not solidified. But I am sure if Phoenix had gotten the bid they would have done a great job, again ! Car pool, put multiple drivers in a car or van and drive straight through. I've done it to Phoenix once and Atlanta twice.

Edited by FHall

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Omaha is as pretty much dead center as you get. to drive from Boston to Omaha it's about 21 hours to drive from San Marcos to Omaha it's 22 hours. Not sure how much more centralized you can get than that.

 

just my 2 cents.

True, but I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend 6 days(out and back) driving to go the Nat's. That 4 additional hotel nights and gas. Phoenix would have been an easy days drive. Not that it matters to anyone but we west coasters but that means that there will have been at least 5 middle or east Nats until we get something we can drive to reasonably. Yea, I know west coast is not convenient for the east coasters. I'm just kind of disappointed that they didn't give a little more consideration to Phoenix. I got a bit excited when Phoenix bid. I'm just disappointed, but I am sure the modelers from the flyover states are excited.

 

yeah that's understandable but I think they did give both a reasonable amount of consideration and if you dont want to spend the 6 day trip to go then you could fly that would save you $$ on your trip.

 

It's not that I don't think I would like to go to Omaha, I'm just disappointed that they haven't had something a little closer to the left coast. It will have been a while before another one is within reasonable driving distance.

 

just curious, what is considered reasonable? To me reasonable (a day trip) is between 12-15 hours. Did you have the chance to go to Colorado?

 

For me I would say about 500 miles. That would go as far north as San Francisco and almost the Albuquerque and include all but a few of the major population centers on the west coast. That is a good days drive at this point in my life. I say that because I use to fly 12 to 14 hour missions routinely. I also use to drive from the upper part of lower Michigan to Sidney, Nebraska with a single stop in Omaha to see my sister, in the snow in December.(Yea, I know uphill both ways in the snow :smiley29: ) It is not that I couldn't do that if I had to, but Nat's is not a have to kind of thing. If getting there is a challenge, then it drops off the list.

 

I didn't make it to Loveland. Planed to go but had a last minute commitment that stopped me. To bad because I was looking forward to that.

 

Don't get me wrong here guys. I am not doubting that the selection committee did what they felt was right. I just got excited to hear that it may be back in our neck of the woods, and when it didn't turn out that way, I was disappointed. Out of 7 of the past and current planned conventions only one has been west of the middle of the US. Frankly, I wish our joint clubs of IPMS San Diego/IPMS San Diego Model Car Club had the enthusiasm to put on the event. Just doesn't seem get people fired up, especially the Car Club end(my side of the house).

 

I am aware of the issues in putting on an event like this, particularly being limited to who is willing to bid on it. If no club out here has the desire or resources to put in a bid, then we can't really complain. I'm just disappointed.

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For me I would say about 500 miles. That would go as far north as San Francisco and almost the Albuquerque and include all but a few of the major population centers on the west coast. That is a good days drive at this point in my life. I say that because I use to fly 12 to 14 hour missions routinely. I also use to drive from the upper part of lower Michigan to Sidney, Nebraska with a single stop in Omaha to see my sister, in the snow in December.(Yea, I know uphill both ways in the snow :smiley29: ) It is not that I couldn't do that if I had to, but Nat's is not a have to kind of thing. If getting there is a challenge, then it drops off the list.

 

 

I didn't make it to Loveland. Planed to go but had a last minute commitment that stopped me. To bad because I was looking forward to that.

 

Don't get me wrong here guys. I am not doubting that the selection committee did what they felt was right. I just got excited to hear that it may be back in our neck of the woods, and when it didn't turn out that way, I was disappointed. Out of 7 of the past and current planned conventions only one has been west of the middle of the US. Frankly, I wish our joint clubs of IPMS San Diego/IPMS San Diego Model Car Club had the enthusiasm to put on the event. Just doesn't seem get people fired up, especially the Car Club end(my side of the house).

 

I am aware of the issues in putting on an event like this, particularly being limited to who is willing to bid on it. If no club out here has the desire or resources to put in a bid, then we can't really complain. I'm just disappointed.

 

I understand your disappointment and sympathize with you. I've heard a lot of people wishing that san diego would place a bid for the nationals but i've also heard they can't get their hotel prices down and that their venue costs are astronomical. Which from what i've heard is just how the west coast is.

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All this means is that IPMS/USA and AMPS have something else similar. Nationals that favor the East Coast. This is not meant to be accusatory: just a plain and simple fact. For me, either would have been six days (maybe four to Phoenix) travel and the show. Guess it will just be the local shows and maybe talk the wife into a Northern CA show for the next couple years. Omaha put on a great show when we were there and I am sure they will do so again. Congrats.

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Mark, I know what you're saying. The only Nats I've ever made was Dallas in 2000. That's also when we had a blast furnace summer and I was driving back and forth from Fort Worth in temps that were 105 plus. It doesn't where the Nats are, it's a long haul for me. The closest they've ever gotten outside of Dallas for me was OK City and I doubt that'll ever happen again. So, like you, it's local shows for me...if I can even make them. Keep in mind that it's 210 miles to Austin, 270 to San Antonio and about the same to Houston. Problem is the miles don't tell the whole story. Oh, yeah, if they ever had a decent local show in El Paso, that's out of the question. 600 miles.

 

Sigh! Looks like the dream of attending another Nats while I'm still breathing has crashed and burned!!

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While the discussion is good, everybody has truly missed the point. IPMS/USA does not assign the convention to any site. It all has to start at the local level and a chapter that wants to host. With the size of a national today, it comes down to 2 main factors: space and manpower. Either or both quickly kill interest from many chapters. We use roughly 25-30,000 sq feet of space for both the contest and vendors, so any site needs from 50,000 to 60,000 sq feet of space. To hold the convention you also need probably 60 people helping and that might be a lowball estimate. How many cities have that space, how many chapters have that manpower? So, the number of groups and potential sites becomes limited. But it goes where it goes because a chapter in that area has both space and people to hold it. To say the organization has any bias to location is simply not true.

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Good summary, Fred. I might only suggest you add the word "affordable" in front of "site." As you well know, all the enthusiasm and manpower in the world cannot make up for high venue prices, unless the members attending the Nationals are willing to pay $100. or more for registration. Nick Filippone

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Fred,

That is not quite true. Obviously, two Chapters had the gumption (manpower and space) to put in bids. Which means they felt they could handle it. Regardless of the reasons, only one can be chosen. The point most of us have made is that Phoenix was closer to attend than Omaha. I personally keep hoping our Seattle club will eventually put in a bid or maybe one of the California clubs as well. However, unless they are the ONLY bid, they may not still be chosen. Nick, I think brought up the most important part. Not sure about CA but prices for venues and hotels has always been high when the Seattle club has mentioned the thought process to putting in a bid.

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I was unaware that it takes about 60+ volunteers to run the show. That pretty much eliminates San Diego. I don't think we have that many members between the two of us and certainly not that many that would volunteer. :smiley6:

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While the discussion is good, everybody has truly missed the point. IPMS/USA does not assign the convention to any site. It all has to start at the local level and a chapter that wants to host. With the size of a national today, it comes down to 2 main factors: space and manpower. Either or both quickly kill interest from many chapters. We use roughly 25-30,000 sq feet of space for both the contest and vendors, so any site needs from 50,000 to 60,000 sq feet of space. To hold the convention you also need probably 60 people helping and that might be a lowball estimate. How many cities have that space, how many chapters have that manpower? So, the number of groups and potential sites becomes limited. But it goes where it goes because a chapter in that area has both space and people to hold it. To say the organization has any bias to location is simply not true.

 

None the less the last two West Coast bids were turned down by the E-board, which raises a question what's more improtant - profit or serving the IPMS members. I realize that the old model of the East/Center/West is no longer feasible, but one would think that when the West coast chapter would puts in a bid E-board would think about its west coast members rather than potential profits.

 

Vladimir

 

P.S. As those who know me know that I personally don't care and will fly to any location, but there are plenty of the local chapter members tat cannot make the non-west coast Nats.

Edited by VYakubov
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$100 would still be cheap by other conference standards.

 

Two examples from my work life...

  • Penn State Web Conference - two day event, 600ish attending - $550(ish) for early registration, $700 for regular. Plus $300 for a single workshop, $500 for both.
  • Drupal Con (another web conference) - 4 day event, 2500ish attending - generally runs $700 to $800 and tends to pick large cities (LA, Nawlins, Austin) where hotels, even with conference rate, run $200/night

So this is what we're 'competing' with... so trying to get a decent (IPMS) rate, is gonna be kinda difficult, IMHO.

 

Eric

 

Good summary, Fred. I might only suggest you add the word "affordable" in front of "site." As you well know, all the enthusiasm and manpower in the world cannot make up for high venue prices, unless the members attending the Nationals are willing to pay $100. or more for registration. Nick Filippone

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Good points have been made all around, but there's one other that needs to be added. When I announced my How To Make Your Own Decals ebook, I was contacted with a request to do a seminar on the subject. Sadly I had to decline due to both the financial and time requirements that reared their head when you considered driving round trip between Fort Worth, Texas and Columbus, Ohio. I'd suggest this also has a bearing on others who might be requested to do seminars from time to time.

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First off I just want to say a BIG thank you to all that had a part in this year's convention.

Having been to the 1982 convention in St Louis and than the '83 convention in Phoenix

before taking a long hiatus from the hobby I've been to the last two conventions. It is amazing how

the convention/hobby has grown, which is a good thing for the hobby but as was mentioned above

it takes a bigger venue and more manpower to hold the convention which may exclude some

chapters from bidding on the convention.

Attending the bid meeting I was prepared to go either site in '17 and heard nothing but good

comments from from all that were at the recent conventions in Omaha and Phoenix. It seemed to me

Omaha had a little stronger bid at this point, as Phoenix was just getting started in the process.

But I left the presentation confident that whoever got the convention would do a great job, and I would go.

371 days to Columbia!!

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I think many IPMS members are going to have to start rethinking things a bit. I believe many of us were spoiled by the old east/central/west rotating bid system, back when the convention was smaller, more affordable, and didn't need as many people to put it on. In short, members adopted an attitude of "waiting til the convention comes to me"; and they could do so back then. NO MORE! Unfortunately, we can no longer wait for a convention to come to us, if we truly want to attend at least semi-regularly.

 

They say nothing is constant except change, and the paradigm of our Nats has changed. It can be ANYWHERE, to be determined only by who has the affordable space and manpower to do one. This is why we've been seeing many of the same hosts repeating every 6-9 years over the last 15 years. They meet those criteria, and with the pluses of experience and past success, it adds an extra incentive to hold one there again.

 

So, IF you live anywhere that it's unlikely for the Nats to come near, you need to start changing your thinking. You have two choices: organize a Nats near you or travel to a Nats when you can.

 

This is not as crass as it sounds on the surface. If you're one of those who waited til it came near you in the past, you only attended about once every 3 or so years anyway. So, save your money for 3 years and attend a Nats in that 3rd year. Yes, I realize that you may be severely limited in the models you can bring, especially if you fly; but then it's an imperfect world. Or, you can make some plans to drive longer for that one Nats you're going to make ( I did 25hrs of driving this year), and budget accordingly.

 

Personally, I'd love to see ONE permanent location, or perhaps a 3 city rotation that would solve the problem of being near most people. And, the truth is, with the aid of technology and other changes in how a Nats is put on, that may be much more possible in the next 10yrs. But even if that were to happen, there would still be vast areas of the country that the Nats would never come near!

 

This was a tough year for the Eboard as they had two very good, experienced hosts bidding for the same year. As I've suggested elsewhere, it's too bad one or more of them couldn't have come in with the possibility of 2017 OR 2018 for their show and venue; as the Eboard could have then awarded BOTH of them! But, then again, perhaps that's another possibility for the future. Until then, you're going to have to adapt to the current circumstances instead of demanding that IPMSUSA adapt to satisfy you.

 

GIL :smiley16:

Edited by ghodges

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I don't think it is profit for the organization that tilts the decision in a particular direction. I think it is more the costs to the attendees. Almost every expense to attend in Phoenix was going to be higher than in Omaha. What I see coming in the future, possibly, is the Convention site being limited to small cities and/or interior sites like Omaha or Columbia where the cost of living is lower, areas that up to now have not been discovered by the "high rollers." Nick Filippone

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Gil and Nick raise good points. I like Gil's rationale that if you waited for the convention to come near you, you were going once every 3 years on average, so save money and still go once every 3 years. Unrecognized by many, there have been multiple years recently when only 1 bid - thankfully a viable bid- was presented. There are wonderful places in the US I'd love to see the convention land, but facility costs and manpower foreclude them. It has already become common for multiple chapters to join forces on bids. Finding affordable space is a huge consideration. For comparison, I attend another national event annually, but in March 2016 it has been placed in NYC at the Garden. Room rates run about $320 per night. I'd venture to say such a location would not see many IPMSers interested in attending. There is a reason sites like Virginia Beach/Hampton; Columbus; Phoenix; Atlanta; and Omaha are becoming regular rotational hosts. The current era conventions are a long way from my 1st in Salt Lake in 1980 with 287 attendees, 508 models, and very limited vendors. As Nick points out a lot of potential hosts can no longer find suitable venues.

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WHEN is the Omaha show? June? July? August? November?

It would be great if they could simply post their powerpoint presentation. I spent the morning waiting for my daughter and son-in-law to show up for breakfast (at 10:05, not the promised 8:30)

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