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Grumman F3f-2 Build In Progress (pictures Fixed-should Work)


MarkoT

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All,

 

I would like to build a Grumman F3F-2 representing a 5th section leader plane from CV-6 ( I just love the combination of the Willow green and True Blue colors). The problem I have is that I haven't been able to identify right Bureau number for such an aircraft 6-F-13. Could someone help me with right number?

 

Best Regards

 

/marko

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Short of a clear photo of this exact aircraft, this will be a little difficult to identify precisely. According to Swanborough and Bowers "United States Navy Aircraft since 1911, the Bureau of Aeronautics numbers assigned to Grumman F3F-2 production were 0967 to 1047. (The Profile Publications on the F3F -#92- by Lt. Cdr. Benton Reams, U.S.N. confirms this.) So your number is somewhere in this sequence. Now, the Profile has a photo (on page 9) in black and white of the second production F3F-2 before delivery to VF-6 on CV-6 U.S.S. Enterprise on 29 Nov., 1937. Not surprisingly, it is B of A # 0968. The aircraft codes are "6-F-1." Now, according to the Swanborough and Bowers book, the Navy used the F3F-2 to equip VF-6 on the Enterprise and Marine squadrons VMF-1 and VMF-2. Further, according to Harleyford's "United States Navy and Marine Corps Fighters 1918-1962," by Paul R. Matt, VF-6 received their aircraft first, in December of 1937. It was not until June, 1938, that the Marine Corps started to receive their aircraft. It goes on to say: "In fact, apart from the first eighteen (my italics) to bring VF-6 up to a full complement, practically all the F3F-2's went to the Marines. So, if the first 18 went to VF-6, and the second production aircraft ( B of A # 0968) was marked "6-F-1, " can we conclude that "6-F-13" was B of A # 0980? Unfortunately, this assumes the first production F3F-2 was not delivered to VF-6 at all, which would contradict Matt. Likewise, it assumes that the subsequently delivered aircraft would have been marked in order of B of A number. All we can safely say-probably- is that it falls in between B of A # 0967 and 0985 inclusive- possibly toward the end of the sequence. Good luck. Nick Filippone I.P.M.S. # 969

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Cruising the Internet, I googled thr F3F-2's of VF-6. The most useful, if confusing, info came from a site for decal for this aircraft. It has 6-F-10 with a B of A # 0988. Could this be a spare or a later production aircraft assigned as a replacement for the inevitable attrition due to accidents? Another source indicates aircraft 6-F-7 was B of A # 0985. In our sequence, but the apparent last delivered with a relatively early code. Your gonna need a photo! Nick Filippone

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Nick: Absolutely fantasitic research! It's a shining example of how IPMS members help each other.

 

Marko: I'm here to give 2 pieces of advice, based on your identifying yourself as a newer member. First, take Nick's info and run with it! Short of a specific photo of your aircraft, it's probably the closest you'll come to finding the bur#. Second, unless YOU personally need to have it absolutely correct (number-wise) for your own satisfaction; don't worry too much about it.

 

I've built the 1/48 AM F3F-3, and own the AM F3F-1. I'm guessing that your F3F-2 kit, like the others, has enough small numbers to enable you to build any of the F3F-2 airframes you desire; so coming up with the actual numbers themselves is not a problem. You should be able to build one within the number ranges quoted by Nick. I searched all of the my F3F references but had no luck finding a picture of the one you want to model, so I can't add to Nick's research.

 

The only other advice I wanted to pass along was to look at pics of other VF-6 a/c closely to see if the stripes, chevrons, and bands might have been outlined in white. This can be particularly tough to see against the willow green colors (less contrast). This IS (imo) a color detail that might be picked up on by other modelers/judges; but I've NEVER known of anyone (especially in judging) to worry about the authenticity of the tail code.

 

Since you're new, you might be worried about getting it all "correct". From an IPMS judging standpoint, worry about getting those tail codes on without any silvering and you'll be home free. No one looks for correct numbers in beareau numbers; they just look to see that they're applied and finished well. Hope this helps! Best of luck!

 

GIL :smiley16:

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All,

 

Thank you for this very valuable information and options. I have also spent some hours in the wonderweb trying to find more information regarding this 6-F-13 but without any real luck. I encountered those russian pages where are color profiles from Squadron "Grumman Biplanes..." book and that is the closest I have sen so far- 6-F-7 # 0985. Well - at least it has partial Willow green cowling so I will keep that as my backup option.

 

One part of my modeling hobby is to build as historically accurate as possible. Like this example shows and the wonderful and very valuable research that Nick did in order to help me that there is a lot of interesting history and incorrect information and even missing information. Digging out those bits and pieces of information, investigations and research only to find one picture etc. that is which really helps me to get me more "committed" to my build.

 

I will keep on investigating- I ordered a hardcopy of that Grumman book etc. and obviously- I need to share my results and the pictures of my Grumman F3F-2 build here. The target is to get the plane ready in the beginning of April when we have a large Model Expo exhibition here in Finland which is also the the largest annual scale modeling contest here.

 

Thanks again

 

/marko

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Status update

 

I just received a hard copy of "Grumman Biplane fighters in action" book and there was an excellent photo of 6-F-13 plane. BuNo is 0998. The picture provides a ton of interesting details like Battle E award and White Winged Turtle.

 

This was indeed and excellent chase and the result was quite a surprise when it comes to the actual number.

 

Now I have no excuse why not to start

 

cheers- and thanks for help again

 

/marko

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So much for my scholarly research and insightful analysis! All joking aside, it points out one of the immutable lessons of life: there is the way things are supposed to be and then what actually did happen. In fairness to the Navy, your aircraft may represent the result of an accident such that an aircraft was pulled out of those dedicated to the Marines to replace such a loss.Your research bears out the importance of photographs when finally arriving at a solution. The best part of this endeavour was the opportunity to pull off my shelf a few references I have not looked at in years. As I have had these in my library for 40-45 years, it was like seeing old friends again. Nick Filippone

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I'm happy I joined IPMS USA- thanks for your help Nick.

 

I will post some pictures regarding the build and its progress- now I have to struggle to finalize the 1/72 ICM SB-2 M100 which due date is tomorrow. I have some +20 hours to finish it.

 

cheers

 

/marko

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  • 2 weeks later...

As promised earlier- here comes few pictures regarding the progress of this build. The target is to get this one ready for the largest hobby fair which is held in the nordic countries called Model-Expo.

 

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Best Regards

 

/marko

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Very nice so far how did you do the exhaust colors? Also find the pre rigging wire interesting. I generally avoid biplanes because of the rigging. Some close ups of your rigging would be of great help. Keep posting.

 

Chris

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Very nice so far how did you do the exhaust colors? Also find the pre rigging wire interesting. I generally avoid biplanes because of the rigging. Some close ups of your rigging would be of great help. Keep posting.

 

Chris

 

Hi,

 

Perhaps this one helps a bit. My method is that I use size #83 drill bit to open the holes first. Then I do a double knot in the end of 2lb fishing line and pull it through the hole so it locks into is place due the knot. I secure the knot with some thin super glue.

 

When it comes to the finishing of the model- I leave the upper surface of the top wing and the lower surface of the lower wing unfinished. I pull the threads through and secure the rigging in place with the halp og Tamiya masking tape. the Tamiya tape is not really mandatory but I have it on my table all the time so it is the easiest choice for me most of the time. I don't glue the rigging in place until I have all of the rigging in place. When ready I check the alignment of the wings and tighten the threads and finalize the installation with superglue. I use superglue also to fill the holes so I leave the glue for at least 12 hours before I finalize and tidy the rigging. Then I finalize the surface and paint it etc.

 

The negative side of this approach is that it requires some carefull planning and the preparations of the holes. Also the pre-rigging is quite a pain once in place. You have to be carefull all the time not to cut the lines or get all mixed up with them.

 

I will post some more pictures when I have made some more progress.

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Exhaust is done by first painting it with Gunze "rust". Then I opened the ends of the pipes. Rest of the exhaust is treated with Mig pigments (Dark, Old and light rust, ash and smoke black) and then secured in place with matt varnish.

 

cheers

 

/marko

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Very nice work so far and I'm very much wanting to see the finished product! Close up pictures are the only way to go, enjoy being able to see one's handy work at the detail items.

 

Great pics;

SteveK

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Hi,

 

Perhaps this one helps a bit. My method is that I use size #83 drill bit to open the holes first. Then I do a double knot in the end of 2lb fishing line and pull it through the hole so it locks into is place due the knot. I secure the knot with some thin super glue.

 

When it comes to the finishing of the model- I leave the upper surface of the top wing and the lower surface of the lower wing unfinished. I pull the threads through and secure the rigging in place with the halp og Tamiya masking tape. the Tamiya tape is not really mandatory but I have it on my table all the time so it is the easiest choice for me most of the time. I don't glue the rigging in place until I have all of the rigging in place. When ready I check the alignment of the wings and tighten the threads and finalize the installation with superglue. I use superglue also to fill the holes so I leave the glue for at least 12 hours before I finalize and tidy the rigging. Then I finalize the surface and paint it etc.

 

The negative side of this approach is that it requires some carefull planning and the preparations of the holes. Also the pre-rigging is quite a pain once in place. You have to be carefull all the time not to cut the lines or get all mixed up with them.

 

I will post some more pictures when I have made some more progress.

web.jpg

 

Exhaust is done by first painting it with Gunze "rust". Then I opened the ends of the pipes. Rest of the exhaust is treated with Mig pigments (Dark, Old and light rust, ash and smoke black) and then secured in place with matt varnish.

 

cheers

 

/marko

 

Thanks fo the rigging clinic. I never thought of that approach but I suppose the seams can be cleaned up without popping any rigging. as for the exhaust, its spot on the way it looks. I'm going to try your method.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

 

Chris

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Nice piece in progress here. Like that engine/cowling. Have used a rigging method similar to Marko's partially on some of my WWI builds and it works great...despite my best efforts to pork it!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Some progress has been made in the last couple of days

 

I hope you can see the rigging lines going all over the place. Also I hope you are able to see how I use Tamiya masking tape to secure the rigging in place. At the moment I have undersides drying from the super glue treatment. I let dry some time before I treat the upper surfaces as well. Then I let it dry for some 24 hours so I can be sure its fully dry before I proceed with trimming the excess fishing line away.

 

I will add some more pictures tomorrow when you can see how I hide the holes etc from the model. Then it's the time for final shots :)

 

Bob- sure I can write something. Lets see after the model is finished how it went.

 

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Cheers

 

/marko

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That's a combination of different shades of Alclad II- "Aluminium" on the wings, engine section is "white aluminium", tail is "chrome" and fuselage section "highly polished aluminium". I used bright aluminium shades due the reason that I'm going to take the shine down with flat varnish- that also makes the alclad darker. Only shining parts should be the wings.

 

cheers

 

/marko

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Just one picture to update how the top wing looks like after loose ends have been cut of from the top wing. After this its just new base coat and finishing. The model should be ready tomorrow- I will add pictures of the finished model.

 

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cheers

 

/marko

 

 

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That rigging looks great. I can tell this ones going to be a winner. Do keep sharing.

 

Chris

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OK- It is done- I'm rather happy with it and how it looks... maybe a bit on the dark side and maybe just a hint too flat. I tried to capture the look of an airplane which have been flying a while from the carrier (It has the gunnery markings and winged turtle).

 

All feedback is more than welcome

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Cheers

 

/marko

 

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Love it! Especially the silver/weathering, rigging & details on the weapons. And that radial has lotsa character. Nice work.

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