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JClark

IPMS/USA Member
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Posts posted by JClark

  1. Paul> Jim - because I'm your friend and can get away with this, you need to think of this statement in connection with your concerns about "western nationals" - saying it "is what it is" about the banquet is the same thing as saying "is what it is" about the west.

     

     

    Yes you can get away with it ;-) But here's the difference. IPMS won't admit it's about the money when we all know it is. Sure we in the west can't compete, it is what it is but by doing that you are abandoning a whole section of the country and not just a few people at a particular convention.

     

    Jim

    • Like 1
  2. Gil> Add to that the fact that we now have no less than 3-4 semi-regular hosts over the last 10-20yrs (VA beach area, Columbus, and (yes) Phoenix) that the Eboard can turn to in a crunch.

     

     

    AAAAA you may want to re-think at least one of those sites. I know Va Beach/Hampton were/are mighty ticked off. I can say I'm not real thrilled at the moment either , especially if we here in Phoenix are only seen as "good enough in a pinch"..... They turned to us this year and we all see what happened.

     

    Just sayin

    Jim

  3. Paul, you stated> Now - and most importantly - regardless of all this squabbling about who runs the show or where it's held, we do need to do everything we can to improve how attractive the national model show is. This is something that should be easily agreed to by everyone. We can improve the seminars, we can improve vendors, but most importantly we need to reach out to more modelers. Right now, and I'll stand behind this, IPMS is there to serve its own members and has lost track of the bigger picture of modeling. the IPMS convention is there to serve long time members and does little to sell itself to new members or unaffiliated modelers.

     

    Well here's an idea, have the show out west once in awhile. Now that you have come out and said Atl is bidding or thinking about bidding for 18 or 19 then why should anyone out west bother putting in the work to bid when all it will happen is to get rejected once again. The whole "Just the way it is" rational is Ticking a lot of western modelers off. We certainly don't see the attitude of IPMS as being inclusionary. And then questions get asked like yours as how to be inclusionary, REALLY?

     

    Paul, you are a good friend and I do agree with a lot of what you say BUT this one baffles me. If you want to truly reach out to modelers then reach out and come west. Even if IPMS has to take a hit from a projected profit of 20K down to 7K. As it Is now we're only good enough if no one from the east bids and they (IPMS) is forced to pick a site out here as they have no other choice.

     

    Who knows it may be time for IPMS/(Western USA)... And not as a chapter of IPMS/USA but more like an independent society like IPMS UK.

     

    Jim

  4. Good points Vlad but as it is now ( and you know this living on the west coast) how many members will still be waiting for a Nats by 2018 that live where we do? The rotation kept the west relevant, now granted if no one bid from the west then the west had no room to complain. But as it is now I don't believe we will see one unless we're (The west) the only ones bidding on one.

    Is there a perfect answer? probably not but the society needs to figure out what they want and then go down that road. Don't say you're for the members and then do something else alienating a chuck of the membership for money. If it is about money then Omaha has provided a great venue to pursue that option. If you want to spread it out then see if we can get a deal with the Embassy suits and see how many venues like the have in Loveland and Omaha are around the country and we then plant ourselves there??? That way you spread it and make a ton of money. Provided they will deal with us. But really lets look at it. Those two venues are out in the middle of no where, that's why we got the deals we did. Those places are starving for business and we provided it.

    But if I had to look into a crystal ball and venture a guess then I would say nothing will change. Once we miss a convention then maybe something will change but until our hand of forced nothing will happen. I do not bet but I would on that ;-)

     

    Jim

    • Like 1
  5. Dave, You can spin numbers anyway you want. I can draw out your number out to 16 years and the east and Midwest get 4 more conventions while we don't get any. What I am saying is the E-Board doesn't always have to award the show to the best bid IF they can go west once in a while and not loose money. The society will be looking at a situation in 2018 where there hasn't been a show in the west since ours in 2010. * years is way to long and the Presidents message of "Just bid" doesn't cut it since the west has made very acceptable bids. The E-Board may not be bias towards the east and Midwest but they don't always have to follow the money. That's my point! if both make money why do they pick the one that will kill it and alienate the modelers in the west for the sake of $$$...

     

     

    Jim

    • Like 2
  6. Yes that's why the rotation was done away with. But the unintended consequence is this. You list as an excuse for the elimination that there isn't enough time for someone to bid if no one for the region that was up fails to do so. Well that goes for the whole society and I would say look at this year when NO ONE bid in time. In which case we put a bid in with only 7 weeks to work with. Only to find out , well we all know the rest of the story. Anyways the main point is this. Why "since IPMS did away with the rotation" do acceptable bids get turned down form the western region when the only thing better about another bid is the bottom line. Both bids projected profit, one modest, one outrageous (IMHO). As I said in other threads money will always win, I get that but when you have a chuck of the society ignored when viable bids from the west come in then expect blowback. That's why I say it's always about the bottom line and nothing else. The society was more than willing to shun one part of the country once again for a bigger profit plain and simple.

    So if that's the case we need to focus on Omaha every year. Sign multi year deals and have national convention committees to plan this. That's if it is about the bottom line....

     

    Jim

    • Like 1
  7. One thing the rotation did was kept the west relevant. Even if no one bid we were still in the mix. Now with an at wide bid we can't compete. At least if someone in the west bid in the rotation it forced IPMS's hand. Now they are free to do as they wish. So would argue that's life deal with it. Well that's true but I didn't think alienating members is what IPMS was about. We have contest rules so no one take all the prizes so then why are we so willing to toss legitimate bids just because more money can be made elsewhere. So sweeps is ok when awarding conventions but not models? It's still the same philosophy and if were about spreading the wealth then this should in my opinion go across all aspects of the society right or wrong. You can't have your cake and eat it too as they say.

     

    Jim

    • Like 1
  8. That's why we do as Paul suggested and have a new board of 3 to 4 people run the convention and answer to the E-board. We could do as the NMRA does and have a group of member's who's job it is to coordinate the Nats. Those people for their efforts would receive free room and transport to the convention. I'm thinking that's a pretty cheap way to attract members to do this while avoiding a professional to come in and do it.

     

    Jim

  9. Paul, I'm not disagreeing with you but good grief once in awhile it wouldn't hurt to come west. . We have members and vendors out here too so Maybe that's why we may need to look at alternatives if we can't get easterners to come out here once in awhile and support their model building brothers out west.

    It goes back to what Gil was talking about. We need people to come out every year and not just wait for one close by. And vise versa we need to get the show across a wider path of the nation so all are not making big trips all the time like we have to.

    I thought IPMS was about attracting members , not alienating them. That is what is happening now. When you get chapters making bids and are routinely shot down for no other reason then a bigger profit then yeah that is called alienating members. I understand the need to make money but at what cost and how much is enough? The answer right now is (there is never to much) and (there's the door if you don't like) .

    And believe me when I say people are leaving even as early as the announcement came down Saturday night. So when I go to the business meeting on Saturday of the convention and hear people talk about attracting new members and retaining members I have to chuckle. I will always go to the National but the attitude from some in the east really gets me. O it's to far, I can't drive, I can't take a big models so it limits what I can take. Really? Well then once in 10 years build something smaller that you can take on an airplane. I would bet gas for driving and hotel costs along the way are equal to a plane ticket in costs. Flying has forced my hand in what I can take so why not give it up once in awhile and quit being selfish and do what I have to do EVERY year. That's all I ever hear on these boards .... It always revolves around what can I get. What went wrong, complain, complain, complain... Good grief be happy we still have these conventions as the days coming when we won't. Don't sweat small stuff that happens at the conventions, don't wait until they are in your area to attend and lets be a bit more inclusive to all in the society. Is that to much to ask?

     

    Jim

    • Like 3
  10. Respectfully Ron the lower venue costs as you state are why they and the national are making 40K in projected profit. If they can get the facility that cheap then then those costs/saving need to be passed along to the membership in lower registration fees and table costs for Vendors. The bottom line is the fact they can make a bigger profit. If one offers 13K in profit and the other is 40K and the members are the ones paying for all this then yes both parties are making money off the membership.

    As I have said before. If Omaha can get the facility this cheaply then IPMS needs to take a hard look at going there every year. It's centrally located, The society won't loose money and in fact can make a boat load. I would offer that not only do we go there every year but it sure looks like we can and should offer lower fees to everyone while doing it and still make money. It's the fiscally responsible thing to do. It also solves the ongoing problem of getting chapters to bid on time. The local members there have been over heard saying they do it better than everyone else so it sure seems to be that they have the member numbers and willing attitude to put this on year in and year out. So I ask why not?

     

    Jim

  11. Thanks for the clarification. Still all that profit is coming form the members. At what point is enough , enough ?? Are we a society out to gouge members or have model conventions with a modest profit and not loose money. Everyone's mileage will vary on that one I'm guessing.

     

    Jim

  12. ON the surface Omaha's bid was indeed better. I counter that there are (many) reason behind the scenes as to why. Yes it sounds like sour grapes for everyone looking at the parties involved but it really isn't. It's more of a logistical problem within the organization. At this point questions need answered so to elaborate now is pointless until further information comes out.

     

    Jim

  13. Nick, I will respectfully disagree . 13k vs 40K in profit is the reason. Quite frankly I'm a bit put back by the society making that kind of profit off the back of members. After all were a non profit outfit. If a chapter can make that kind of profit off a deal with their venue then they need to kick money back to attendants/members and Vendors. You say costs for one are higher and yes you are correct, that's why there is such a difference in the profit so what is Omaha's excuse if they are not paying for the hall?

     

    Jim

  14. As for making up school my neighbor is a teacher and she tells parents Nope! if your kid aint there then they miss the work. She's not going out of her way to accomadate parents. Now granted this is just one but our schools get paid by the state for each student based on thier attendance so when the kid misses a day they don't get the money. Plus thats a bad time to pulla kid out , right after school starts. Heck my wife wanted no part last year of going only to return a day before school started. There is no real answer here since there are a bunch of varibles to contend with. BUT the one thing we all have to come to grips with is this. What happens when the day comes and no one bids ???? Were supposed to have one per the Constitution and by-laws but if no ones willing then what?

    I believe a rotation across the country with 3 to 4 cities is possible with a contract with a hotel company IE say like Hyatt, BUT "There it is again" as Nick says , we run on voluntiers and those same three cities will get tired of running shows even if it were as frequent as 4 years. The blue print would be in place but the actual manning of convention and model registrations would a bear not to mention security. We are closer to to being able to do it with a standardized system we now use but its getting the people to run it that will always be the main problem IMHO.

     

    Jim

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