[Efforts toward a west coast Nats]

Is that an offer?

 

Cause I love Bricktown. I have to tell this story.

 

At the OKC Nats, three of us from our local club attended. My wife was there with me. We discovered the Bricktown Brewery and their jugs of beer. We walked and ate there every night and bought a jug and had it filled and refilled -- cause there was a considerable price break if you bought the jug itself. My wife only had one glass. By the time we were ready to walk back to the hotel, the three of us were in that sombre and very serious phase of drinking, and we became very concerned about the jug. We designated my wife as the jug carrier. Because we were worried that we might be drunk enough to drop and break it. We told her that jug carrier was a position of great honor. We wandered along, quite jolly and happy to be at Nats. While my wife trailed, holding a jug of beer.

 

She didn't think it was as funny as we did.

[Efforts toward a west coast Nats]

Lots of good discussion.

 

Seems there are a number of tradeoffs that IPMS, the Nats organizers, and individual IPMS members have to make.

 

Cost is one. I found some site online which estimates total cost for a trip from Albuquerque to Columbia and compares driving with flying. I rolled in hotel costs in Columbia and food during the entire adventure -- and some incidentals like registration and banquet. Plus I estimated I'd drop @250 in the vendor room. If my wife goes with me, driving, roughly, is @$2300 and flying is @2700. If she stays home, driving is reduced to @ $1700 and flying to @ $1800. And, if my wife comes, she'll shop.

 

If I had to pay $200 for a room, counting room cost and taxes, it would add another @$400 to the total cost. So, either @2700 driving or @$3100 flying w/wife. @2100 and @$2200 without. That is way over $1000. (See why I'd like a Western convention?)The closer the convention, the less time I spend on the road and the less food I buy. As hotel price goes up, my cost goes up hundreds of dollars. My saving grace was staying with friends in Phoenix and Omaha and, looks like, in Columbia. And sharing a room in KC. I had reservations in Columbus, but it just got too expensive -- so I cancelled.

 

A second tradeoff is the focus of the Nats. As others have asked, is it a modeler's convention or a family vacation? With the exception of my wife, who can tolerate a Nats event for about one day and will find a quilt shop somewhere, Or two quilt shops. Or six. there are lots more quilt than hobby shops and they are everywhere. I have no interest in the Nats as a family event. I go for the models and the judging and the vendors and friends --- I find that interesting enough. I basically ignore all of the family stuff. Obviously, others don't see it that way. If I drive, I find that I can discover lots of things to do and see on the way and back.

 

A third tradeoff is the date of the Nats. Other discussion has indicated that those who make the Nats a family vacation want Nats in the summer. I would rather have Nats in the fall or spring, when it isn't so hot (usually) and when school aged kids aren't all over the places I want to see. I understand that, in the distant past, Nats used to be in the spring? But, I'm inside in air conditioning so the date is not a major issue for me.

 

I guess it really comes down to cost and available time. If Columbia winds up being costly, I doubt I'll ever be back East -- unless, as this year, I will combine the Nats with other visits to family and friends and spend at least three weeks on the road.

[Efforts toward a west coast Nats]

...

We were approached by a group in the northwest and there concern was there hotels were going to be a minimum of $190. it is not the cost that was a problem but they worried that the cost would lower attendance and the show would lose money.

 

I would not have attended if the rooms were @$200. Columbia is now possible for me because I can stay with a friend across the river.

 

All of this is the reason we are, by the constitution required to keep a back up fund for the nationals.

 

Thought that might be a factor.

 

And Rusty- I would go back to OKC in a minute

 

It would take me about eight hours, but I'd be there too.

[Last "Finished" Model of 2015. Epic Fail!]

This thread makes me feel so much better. Not due to Schadenfreude, but just knowing that someone else has similar issues.

[Efforts toward a west coast Nats]

 

Pete:

 

Agree to disagree. We run a $150,000 per year venture which files and pays taxes (yes- we have to pay taxes even as a 501 non-profit), wages to the office manager and art director including generating all the tax documents for them; runs multiple commercial checking accounts, publishes a magazine including all the necessary postal permits and filings. We get audited by the post office and the IRS as a business, maintain trademarks, corporation filings and a plethora of more things required by a business. We are a business and the goal is to not to be one to the membership but if you join the board, it is definitely work and a business. For the remainder of the membership, I agree its not a business, it is a hobby and pleasure and that is what keep the board motivated.

 

But that is the reason so few want to run- they don't want to put the time in to what they consider a hobby and that, believe me, I do understand.

 

Dave

So you are implying that a primary consideration in what bid gets selected for the national convention is the amount of profit that can be generated to the organization?

 

I did not infer that DM was implying that. What I read was that IPMS has a core set of activities that requires we must first meet certain hard rules of finance. Without regard to the perceptions of individual members. Or IPMS will cease to exist. And, if IPMS is sailing close to the wind (that's a sop for you ship builders) financially, then the core business activities must dominate IPMS Nationals decision making. Which could lead to your conclusion above.

 

I have no insight into how close to the financial winds IPMS may be sailing. I would think, that if IPMS has or projects to have, funds to have a secure business base, then it can make the location of a National Convention a higher priority than the pure projected net profit from the event. So, to reveal a prejudice, a Western convention projected to make less profit might be chosen over some other area's more profitable convention bid. Because IPMS might have a financial buffer if the event "fails". However, if the financial priority overrides all other considerations, I might conclude that IPMS is very close to the wind.

 

I also have no insight into how close IPMS may have come to falling of the edge of the world, financially, in the past. I know from experience that escaping a financial disaster can make one very conservative in making future optimistic decisions.

 

I was an officer of another club in another hobby. We sponsored two events a year. Our financial philosophy was to maintain a base amount of funds to eat both events if they were complete busts -- all expenses and no income. That almost happened once for one event -- it was outdoors and it rained for three days before and the day of the event, leaving our venue area a complete quagmire. We lost our shirts and pants and socks on that one, maybe getting 10% of our costs back. But we had it covered and we were only dealing in a couple thousand dollars per event. IPMS Nats is a much bigger boat.

[Banquet Logistics]

I wandered onto this dated thread. In reading it, a memory arose.

 

The last Nats banquet I attended involved the room's doors being opened right before the awards ceremony. A flood of people, well over 150 of them, charged in and the chairs up against the rear wall were quickly occupied. Although most of the non-banquet folks made were courteous, a goodly number stood in the aisles between the tables -- blocking the view of the banquet attendees. When asked not to block the view, words resulted and resulted in other words.

 

I particularly remember one response to the request not to block the view -- "I have the right to see the awards presented and I can stand wherever I want. So, go ...." It sort of ruined the awards ceremony, which involved looking at about six people's backs.

 

Now, without referencing other threads discussing the worldview of some IPMS members, that incident does raise questions -- "Do those who pay for the banquet have a right to view of the screen? Can those who didn't pay for the banquet obstruct the view of those who did? What exactly should a non-banquet attendee be afforded in terms of seating and views? Depending upon the venue, should the organizers limit the number of non-banquet folks to the number of seats available to seat them -- and how would they control the flood upon the doors opening -- and the irate folks not permitted entry?"

 

My table was half wives. I can empathize with someone who chose not to pay for the banquet and then could not attend the awards ceremony due to spouses sitting who did not register for the convention.

 

I'm glad I don't have to deal with these issues. But I think that managing the expectations of non-banquet awards ceremony attendees may not have always been well handled. And, per my example above, the expectations of banquet attendees were also not well managed.

[Greetings from England]

Thanks for all the welcomes guys, I build almost anything but mainly 1/24 cars, trucks and hot-rods.

Ron Wisbech is in Cambridgeshire about halfway between Peterborough and Kings Lynn.

David, I have never stood on Liverpool, my feet ain't that big!! Seriously I was born just down the road from there at a little place called Warrington and only moved away in my late thirties, Liverpool has the best music, great people once you get to know them and the Mersey ferries, what's not to like?

Are you daft? Liverpool F. C.! And you're not allowed to discuss this season. Or you'll forever walk alone.

 

Of course, in the US, I follow Real Salt Lake. We won't discuss their performance this year either.

[Greetings from England]

Welcome.

 

BTW, how do you stand on Liverpool? You answer is essential and critical.

[Questions about National Shows]

"Just witness the discussion when the convention is held later in August and the people who's kids have to start back to school start to speak up."

 

That's nothin'. You want to start a flame war, just say the Nat's are being held over the fourth of July weekend. Oh, what colorful conversation we get then.

In another hobby (yes, I know, I'm a heretic) there are "conventions" being held on Father's Day weekend and ... get this ... Easter weekend. I'm not going to either.

 

And, in yet another hobby (OK, you can burn me), astronomy, things are much simpler. Things are available when the sky and weather make them available.

[Questions about National Shows]

David,

Let me clarify about one of the compromises you cite. You say that we have our convention in the summer to avoid peak season rates. That's not entirely true. The main reason is because that is when school is out and most members can take vacation to come to the show with a minimum of familial disruption. Just witness the discussion when the convention is held later in August and the people who's kids have to start back to school start to speak up.

 

I defer. As a member somewhere out in the wilds of the West, I don't have the insights that others do. What I have heard consistently is that summer in some humid, or not so humid (let's call it "dry heat"), inferno provides the optimal cost/schedule tradeoff. I understand the family consideration and it makes sense. I have a buddy, a school teacher, who missed Nats for years due to an early August school start date. He is retired now and as happy as can be since he can attend Nats.

 

I won't disagree with the fact that we have a high concentration of, for lack of a better term, special personality types, but that would be true in any organization that is specialist in nature. Some people may have no other way to feel like they belong or that what they know is valued and someone who devotes all their free time to counting the lock nuts on a 4-4-0 steam engine boiler door and making sure you know that he does, probably does not have the time nor desire to read "How to Make More Friends" or such books. I agree with Dick. Treat them like that uncle you only see once a year at the holidays who insists on laying out his entire political agenda for all within earshot to hear. You nod and walk away. They'll just turn and try to engage someone else within range.

 

Yes, indeed. As I noted with my reply to Sr Montgomery, there is some difference between the IPMS member who is supremely self-assured about models and the member who is supremely self-assured about all IPMS activities and operations -- ranging from the most mundane local club issues to the highest reaches of IPMS itself. The impact of these folks on newcomers to IPMS can be terminal. I just try to ask what the newcomers what they are are building and let them tell me what they want to know -- which usually requires a referral to someone who is competent.

[Questions about National Shows]

I am of the opinion that membership in IPMS does not cause or facilitate the propensity of some of our fellow modelers to develop into butt-heads. Some independent modelers berate both AMPS and IPMS for being a litterbox of nit pickers, rivet counters, and BHs who look down upon all other modelers. I have found that being a member of a national organization such as IPMS does not cause, nor does it diminish BHS (Butt Head Syndrome).

...

I did not mean to imply, nor do I think you inferred, that IPMS is the cause for the effect. It is more a result of the self-anointed gods of plastic who can be very visible (and audible) at, seemingly, every IPMS event and activity. Their impact can be disproportionate to their numbers. And, IMHO, they seem to aim at the new folks and, doing such, can become an off-putting introduction to the Society.

 

 

... It's the person, themselves, and their view of their significance to the modeling community that causes BHS. A cure is out of the question since the disease will flare up again even after the person in question receives a much deserved beat-down.

 

Absolutely. Spot on. Perfectly put. And you pointed out that it is not only their modeling skills and knowledge (which can be admirable and considerable) that are self-celebrated, but also their self-assurance that their position on everything -- IPMS politics, judging, contest categories, how the vendor room is run -- is the only possible position. I have noted that such are absolutely irrepressible. And legends in their own minds. I have jested that such could be burned at the stake and they would emerge, in flames, demanding that a vote be held to affirm their position on whatever got them to the top of the woodpile to begin with.

 

BTW, I have nobody on this forum in mind. Honest.

 

 

An option is to simply look at the BH, slowly shake your head, turn, and walk away while they are in mid-sentence. They won't notice because they don't care if you are listening or not. They are their own audience and won't notice your departure.

 

Usually works. Sometimes doesn't. Last two times I went to our local shop I was discussing various modeling trivia with a buddy and up came one of the local IPMS savants to interrupt, inject themselves into our conversation, and offer irrelevant information. We just moseyed on down the aisle. In similar situations, however, there was a price. The one ignored or dismissed can report that a failure to willingly engage was the result of anger or hostility.

 

I enjoy making some small contribution to IPMS, either as a member or as a participant at a local show or national convention. I enjoy listening to those who know far more than I about a modeling subject (and since I am not an expert on any subject so I get to listen a lot!) and I really enjoy attending demonstrations of modeling skills by those who are proficient. IPMS and AMPS have members who are genuine experts and my modeling has been improved by listening to them and by modeling (pardon the play on word) my own efforts after what they demonstrate.

 

In large, yes. IPMS does offer a world of modeling information and the opportunities to improve. However much one cares to improve. And usually by gracious people happy to share. However, I find that I am more and more selective about what shows I attend and to what extent I participate. I don't judge at regional shows like I did in the past and don't attend regional and local show as much as in the past. Being retired, I have more time -- and with kids out and on their own -- I have more disposable income to participate. But some of those off-putting folks, still around and still hyperactive, make it easier for me to decide to focus on the more enjoyable IPMS events -- and the more enjoyable portions of the events I do attend. I have a buddy who only attends shows out of our region ... where nobody knows him and where he can just enjoy the modeling. Right now, I think Columbia could be my only event for 2016. And Nats isn't a bad choice at all.

 

I agree with David when he says....just ask questions and join in and show us what your are building. Solid advice from Wee Davey.

 

I agree with what I said too.

[Efforts toward a west coast Nats]

A map of the current IPMS clubs... (or pretty recent) for reference.

 

Screen Shot 2015-08-11 at 3.37.54 PM.png

 

Eric

So I guess Billings is right out.

 

But, having read all of the previous posts, I can only say this. As it gets more difficult for me, a Westerner, to attend Nats -- in part because there are fewer Nats in the West -- I am less and less motivated to attend Nats. Last year, I cancelled my Columbus plans and am now reconsidering Columbia (which would be my first Eastern Nats) -- breaking a string of years of West/Center attendance.

 

And the less motivated I am to attend most of the Nats, the less benefit I get from being an IPMS member -- I can participate in every IPMS sponsored contest, except Nats, without being a member.

 

So, whatever the logic and whatever the motivation for bidding and whatever the selection process, there will be some Westerners such as I who drift away from IPMS as the opportunity to attend the annual showcase contest withers away. Without anger or frustration or recrimination -- just a bit of sadness.

[Questions about National Shows]

IPMS, being a volunteer organization, has to make lots of trade-offs to put on a quality annual National Convention. One of the major trade-offs, IMHO, is the continuing string of summer shows .... nasty heat versus a cost affordable to many members.

 

Other trade-offs are accepting pretty much anybody who is willing to contribute ... along with their quirks and foibles and idiosyncrasies. If you want to experience such first-hand, volunteer to judge at any level IPMS contest (which you really ought to do). I count myself as one of the more peculiar.

 

I have been participating less and less in IPMS activity due to the abrasivenss of some IPMS members who are ... well, offputting. And done more building and enjoyed it more. As you indicated, one can have a really good time at a Nats show without having to wade in the swamp. So, just ask questions and join in and show us what you are building.

[1/48 Matchbox SH-2F Seasprite]

You did that with a Matchbox kit!

 

Kudos.

[Dinosaurs and other extinct creatures in 1/72]

This whole thread is interesting.

[WIP on sprue figure]

I've never heard of the technique, but it looks like it is working.

[Acrylic Paint Issue]

In general, I have found that you should let any coat of anything you put on a model dry for at least 24 hours. 72 hours for oils. The problem usually is that you don't want to add weeks to a build just letting stuff dry. So you find ways of speeding things up. Often by reducing your wait time for drying. As I'm doing right now on a 1/72 scale Sherman's clear coats, which I've let dry for as little as three hours.

 

You don't have to do this, but you should. You can learn your materials and develop techniques where you don't need to, but you should. Because, eventually, you will discover that you really should have.

[Catastrophe: Moments in modeling we hate.]

And they call golf a masochists's game.

 

Yesterday, I discovered some sort of streak on the side of a Sherman I am just about to finish. As if the clear coat lifted. I have no idea where it came from or how it happened. So, now the fine grit sanding paper and patience, a characteristic that I lack.

 

And somewhere on the floor of my model room are, not one, but two BA-64 grab handles. Unsucessful in scratch building a replacement, I have now purchased my third kit just for one teeny-tiney, incredibly fragile part with the ability to fly on its own and hide in plain sight.

[Rainey Mountain Charlie]

Sierra Hotel! How did you do that incredible blanket?

[The Ronin]

Got my first bust -- a Viking. Hope I can do as well.

[Dinosaurs and other extinct creatures in 1/72]

Good work. At 1/72, great work.

[Space Marine Terminator Chaplain]

Impressive. Especially the chainwork.

[GROUP BUILD: What in the heck were they thinking?!]

Kinda sorta finished. Just enough rigging to show that it had some. It needs a base and some figures for scale:

 

 

 

 

 

That's just wrong. On so many levels.

[A question for the 2015 Columbus Ship Judges...]

Hmmm. Another interesting IPMS unwritten rule. I don't know anywhere in the rules where the size of a model is to be a consideration. Just the quality of the build.

 

But I wouldn't be surprised.

[2016 Nats City]

Had a discussion on the topic of a permanent Nats site just this afternoon at our local B&M. The consensus was that, if it happened, it would be in the East due to population density. Which would leave a number of us in the West permanently out of attending. Which would leave a number of those to conclude that, since anybody, IPMS member or not, can be an IPMS chapter member and can attend local and Regional contests, then there would be no reason to be an IPMS member.