pcotcher

I do think the "wives" angle throws this off a good bit, as they do attend the banquet, but are rarely entered in the contest. Additionally, the wives do attend the awards show (as do family members). This year, my daughter was the only entrant in the family, yet there were four of us total that wanted to see at least the juniors part of the show. For Columbus, they are space constrained by the facility. They put on an excellent show. Despite the challenges with setup and tear down, everything else ran very well, and attendance was as good as it always is at the Columbus show. The only other place they might have had a space to hold the awards show is in the atrium area outside the contest room. I remember that space being pretty big. Also, for as much as I didn't like paying for the banquet in Virginia Beach only to be moved to a different spot for the awards show, this may be a model to be considered on a go-forward basis when the banquet room is too small.

Jim - because I'm your friend and can get away with this, you need to think of this statement in connection with your concerns about "western nationals" - saying it "is what it is" about the banquet is the same thing as saying "is what it is" about the west. That said, I know a LOT of folks that don't want to spend the money on the standard hotel "rubber chicken" banquet, but do want access to the awards presentation. I am in TOTAL agreement with Mike Moore's statement that if you pay to register, you should have a seat at the awards show. And buying a banquet ticket doesn't always work that way, as in Virginia Beach, I remember buying the banquet ticket only to get shuffled down the hall to a theater. That same group of friends decided that very year that they were never buying a banquet ticket again. They make a point to find a local high-end restaurant and make a big evening of that before coming back for the awards show. it's a tough thing as there are contractual obligations that have to be met, but the awards show should be very much viewed as an open event and exclusive from the banquet.

Not suggesting ignoring at all. And yes, you'll get superb attendance from California for a California show. That eight to ten hour circle will get almost everyone up and down the coast. However, as soon as you go east, that's where those driving circles fail. Again, I'm not advocating against the west, just pointing out realities. And no, Omaha isn't the greatest example of what I'm talking about. But, if you're comparing Indianapolis, Dayton, Columbus or even Atlanta, that story changes quite a bit. And avoiding tourist destinations might help a bit. But I'd have to compare real numbers to know. Sacramento might work. But going back to the point of comparison between Phoenix and Omaha, it was all about cost, Phoenix is just a more costly destination, and based on business travel, I believe most of those western destinations would suffer from the same cost issues. All that said, I was trying to move beyond that discussion - if you read my post above, it was more about no longer arguing about the "where" or the "who" of the national convention, but rather about improving the attraction.

Oh and as far as 2018 (and maybe 2019 as well) is concerned, I'm thinking you're going to see some very strong bids from non-western parts of the country.

On the west - Jim continues to make this "for the sake of $$$." Fact is it costs more to hold a convention out there. So it's not just about money or more profit or anything like that it's about cost. If you compare a nominal western bid with a nominal midwestern bid, it's just going to be apples and oranges. It's literally going to take a year where you have all western chapters bidding on the show in order to have a western bid look favorable. And right or wrong, if you want the most members to get to the show you hold it somewhere central more often than not. That's not to say you have to do it all the time, but that does have to be a consideration when comparing bids. I'm sure there are statistics that could be done to back that up. Just plot the members on a map and then draw driving circles around different locations and you could see what percentage of the membership is covered. It's just pure, unbiased mathematics. Does it suck, for the west? Sure it does! As has been said, the rotation at least kept the west somewhat relevant. But then quickly we started to see spots in the three-year cycle where it wasn't working, starting with Chicago back in 2001... The idea of putting the show in a centralized location and leaving it there probably just doesn't work. I believe the society would adapt, but the reality is, as the graphic showed a few pages back, that the country is just too big for it to really work - until you change attitudes about getting to the national convention. On centralized planning - I think this is something that should be at least closely reviewed. Where can we save? Where can we spend money to improve show infrastructure? Could we afford some degree of professional planning and operations if we weren't splitting the money between the national office and the local chapters? Lots of ways to structure the leadership, and the work gets lighter and lighter as it moves forward, especially if you're willing to spend a little bit to pay for the professional planning. Now - and most importantly - regardless of all this squabbling about who runs the show or where it's held, we do need to do everything we can to improve how attractive the national model show is. This is something that should be easily agreed to by everyone. We can improve the seminars, we can improve vendors, but most importantly we need to reach out to more modelers. Right now, and I'll stand behind this, IPMS is there to serve its own members and has lost track of the bigger picture of modeling. the IPMS convention is there to serve long time members and does little to sell itself to new members or unaffiliated modelers. Note, this isn't about attracting more kids to the hobby, this is about attracting more modelers to our show, and that IS an area where we can have a very positive impact without any concern toward where the show is or who is running the show.

The benefits of moving to a more centralized planning system: 1. Bidding can be handled further out avoiding potential conflicts with other conventions that are coming to the same town. The two year horizon is too short. As we look at 2018 and 2019 dates here in Atlanta, there aren't many good slots. 2. Things don't have to be re-learned every year when a new host takes over. If you pull from a national pool of experienced volunteers that know how to operate the systems, then can avoid a lot of pit falls (which are mostly small) that we tend to see every year. 3. Money from the conventions really don't need to be split between local and national. And then with all of the proceeds going to the national side, some of that money can be spent on improving show infrastructure. I know the Atlanta 2005 crew spent considerable amounts of money on local infrastructure that if it was existing, we would not have had to lay that out. 4. We never have to worry about a "no bid year." 5. We can try to look to a true west coast show by looking at spots in the west where there might not be enough local support, but the right kind of facility to host a show. But honestly, after reviewing this, I'm wondering if we should be spending our efforts in other areas (which for me is a completely different set of windmills to tilt). Regardless of how we proceed with planning the national, we need to be doing everything we can to maximize the show's impact on promoting the hobby and making it more of an event that folks are excited about attending.... And that's a whole different set of issues.

The issues with CCH and 31 were: Setup was severely restricted for some vendors, not getting into the rooms until as late as 6:00 on Wednesday because of overlap between when the CCH group was to shut down their event and when IPMS was to start ours. For 31, it created logistical issues again - not only did it clog the hotel rooms, elevators, etc. It did the same with area restaurants. Also, they literally took over the town, so things like load out on Saturday were restricted because they had all the loading/unloading areas congested with their busses - and a complete unwillingness on their part to allow us to load up. It was bad enough that even the Hyatt staff, which was VERY helpful, struggled to tell us where to load out. It illustrated what a small fish we were. If you were just an attendee, you probably didn't notice those things as much, but, man, vendors are important to our show, and they got several raw deals at this show.

@ Ron - I agree about laying out the room, but as far as registration, I see that being required from a different area of coordination. Again, finding ways to standardize these processes is key. We're saying the same thing, just have different organization ideas. @Dick - I'm sorry, but I very much disagree that all the problems are lack of understanding of bid preparation and coordination with the 2nd VP. The problems that we're trying to overcome are not related to bidding, the problems are related to funding and manpower requirements. These are invasive on the local host at this point. 1. Bids can only happen two years ahead of time, when the planning cycle on some facilities are 5 years plus, it becomes difficult to get good dates. Plus, we end up being shoe horned in with other conventions running at the same time - see all the issues we had at Columbus with CCH and 31. 2. Local hosts cannot fund what they need because they cannot collect until after the previous convention passes. When paying deposits, they are required when contracting with further deposits required before the one year out mark. Often times, these are hard to make - even with the seed money that can come from IPMS. I recall this being an issue with deposits for the 2005 convention. We had to twist arms to make the dates work, but the one year funding horizon causes issues. 3. Legal establishment - local hosts should establish 501C3 status to make sure they're protected on the tax front. IPMS has this, local chapters don't. We spent a lot of money to get this done in Atlanta. Some other hosts have done it, others haven't. The list of liabilities from not being incorporated are long, especially for locals having to sign contracts worth tens of thousands. 4. Equipment rentals - if the equipment could be standardized, it would make things much smoother. Also is an unnecessary expense to have year in and year out. 5. Further standardization and training on registration processes - admittedly this one can be corrected either way, but each year, it feels like some of the local host folks have no idea how to process registrations, simple things like name tags are major headaches. This could be dramatically streamlined with more national oversight. I'm not suggesting that we have one or two people take it over, nor had I ever said that it should be done as a way to get free travel and room nights for the show. However, if we spread the volunteering over all the folks that have experience, it does become more workable. Maybe it's just a simple as the national office being wiling to put some funding into the show's infrastructure. Pay for a professional staff to run the show, if they can run something like the 31 show, then we'd be simple by comparison. All the registration, etc. could be drastically simplified. Moving the convention around gives you the local flavor, having a local host should not impact local flavor in any way.

If you talk through the roles that will help determine what is really needed. For example, the contest coordinator is the local role that facilitates the communication between the Competition Committee, the judges and the results (Eileen) folks. If you've centralized the convention management, I honestly am not certain this role is needed. The contest is the ONE part of the show that runs pretty smoothly. To truly plan this we need to talk through a typical nationals project plan, what happens when, and decide how each step would be impacted by this change. Once you have that, you'll have a better idea of what the volunteer requirements would be. Again, this will be complicated and just like running a locally hosted national convention for the first couple of years, but then after you smooth process, the workload will go down. Standing by!

Many hands make light work. And if the system becomes repeatable, it gets a lot easier. I know when we ran our first few local shows way back in the early 90s, they were a big hassle and a lot of work. By the time we got to our big annual regional events leading into the 2005 show, the shows were pretty easy, as we just did the same thing every year. I absolutely believe this becomes the same situation with the National Convention. There will be some trying times the first couple of years, but after we work out the kinks it'll be a lot easier. And if we pull from the pool of past national coordinators, then it will be easy to spread the load over those "many hands." In order to make this effective, we have to stop thinking about the current "bid" cycle, and start thinking about the shows as a continuum.

And it's not just losing bids, it's certain things that can happen between the national organization and the host chapter(s) - I've heard from a couple of recent hosts that they're not going to hold the show any longer because of things that happened behind the scenes.

I'll quote myself here - I'll volunteer to head up a team to determine the feasibility of this. Ron's on the right track with his approach. Atlanta is already considering a bid, maybe that's the time to have the national team run the show and then hand off from there. if we write up a dedicated RFP that we can send to host cities, then they can get in the process of bidding for the show. Again, CITIES, not CLUBS should be bidding. FWIW, short of one line of code, we did have the biggest and most successful show in IPMS/USA history. Paul

And Jim - you're actually making my point for me, as you just argued both sides in one response (I love that about you). We do need folks to start treating this like a national convention, and come our regardless of where it is, but the behavior that we've build (right or wrong) is that as long as the convention wanders around the country, members feel like they can wait until it gets close. We have essentially "trained" that behavior into the membership. Now, I am definitely not against a west coast show, I'd like the excuse to get out there, hopefully it'll happen in the right place and with the right financial structure. Now, making the convention more attractive - that's a whole different discussion. And that requires eating some sacred cows. We'll save that for another time. I think we need to improve the infrastructure and operation of the existing convention first and THEN, look at ways to make it a more attractive show.

I think it's more than 3-4 people, but you're right, plus if you're no longer shepherding local chapters through their bids, hosting and financial wrap-up, the focus of the elected office becomes very different. Our staff for 2005 consisted of: Chairman Chairman Emeritus (somebody that had done it before - and could advise on pitfalls) Coordinators For: Vendors Sponsors Facilities Hotels Seminars Raffle Publicity Contest Finance Legal Some get simplified (particularly finance and legal) if you don't have to reinvent the 501C3 wheel each time a new host comes, but others are going to be required on an ongoing basis. I am not advocating that we put this load on the national officers, but rather we build a convention committee out of those with past experience. I'll even volunteer to work with those interested to build the proposals of how it would work. Obviously, it would be VERY different from the host chapter method, so when considering this, you really must decouple your thinking as to how the "old way" works, as this would be VERY different (but to the attendees the convention would be the same).

Jim - if we're approaching this thing without concern for "fair" and just putting this thing as close to the most people as we can, then yes, we do cater to the masses. I'm not saying it works for everyone, but if you're taking a strict, "do the best you can for the most" then that's the ballpark you're playing in. Also for vendors, flying is different, as then not only do you have the expense of flying, you also have the expense of shipping your stuff, which cuts way into profits. Wish there was a better solution, but I can see the economics (higher prices) of western shows really limiting our options out there - all the travel and population center stuff aside.