noelsmith

Gary Oldman's portrayal of Chuchill in the film ' Darkest Hour' gives an insight into this well known political figure. Whoops! I am drifting from the PR problem again! Better stop or my quill will wear out!

That is quite a profound statement Dak! Whilst being philosophical, a late very good friend of mine, Tony Woollett, who was IPMS U K National Champion quite a number of times had this to say. No matter how your model is judged, it will be no better or worse when you take it off the table to when you placed it on the table! I don't lose any sleep over judging decisions on my models as it is on!y someone else's opinion at the end of the day. You win a few. You lose a few!

This thread has drifted well away from the PR problem and has become one about the finer points of judging. I think that everyone posting on this thread has made their personal views well known by now, and it is going nowhere except for just more lengthy replies being made. Regardless of all this IPMS is where it is, and I can foresee the same discussions and arguments taking place in another 10 years from now. So basically what I am saying is that I can't foresee any great changes being made, and the society will carry on in just the same way as it always has. Maybe we take ourselves too seriously at times and forget it is just a hobby that we should all enjoy regardless of skill level!

Has Model Cars Magazine gone under? Heard nothing about it recently.

Rick, Dry transfer sheets are rub down transfers. The backing sheet is for protection only. They are designed to transfer individual letters of numbers onto another surface after alignment and pressure applied with a stylus to the front of the sheet. They can be applied to clear decal sheet, after which they can be used as waterside transfers (decals) that we are all used to when cut out. Hope this helps.

Telford awards GSB but is based on 123 in each category. The Model Engineer and Modelling Exhibition as was, awarded Gold, Silver and Bronze medals, and this was done on a points system. So multiples of each medal could be awarded in each class, the criteria being to reach or exceed a certain number of points in order to gain recognition for that award. In my personal view this is better than the 123 system in recognising how good a model is without having to split hairs in reaching a decision.

Gil has summed up the PR problems in his last paragraph, but there is another. Many people outside the society still have the notion that we are just aircraft modellers. Why this still persists after fifty odd years is anyone's guess!

Getting back on topic, having won scratch built awards at Telford, I would consider myself a competent model maker rather than an artist. So, no I will not be changing my mind about being called an artist. I also enjoy drawing and painting pictures, so in that context I would consider myself an artist. In a previous life I drafted engineering drawings but would not class that as art though. Like I said before , model making has artistic leanings and good model makers have to have developed building and finishing skills along the way. Can my Scratch Built Car models be classed as art as opposed to models built from kits? Maybe miniature engineering in plastic perhaps?

LOL We all have our personal perception of whether modelling is an art form. Mine will not change, nor will Dak's or possibly anyone else's and my head is now beginning to hurt! Noel

Dak, We will have to agree to differ about whether modelling from kits is art per we or not. Perhaps we modellers may be better described as artisans rather than artists. Churchill was a painter, and his work sells well well at auctions. But as for Churchill just dabbling in politics? As a Brit my point of view is very different from your peception, so let's just leave it at that.

Not sure about whether model making from kits is art per se, although it has leanings towards art and craft generally. When one paints or draws a picture, does sculpture, they are more likely to be recognised as actual art due to the creativity and skill of the person. I would be inclined to think of our hobby as being more a craft activity than actual art Part of the PR problem is how plastic modellers are perceived generally by the uninitiated from outside the hobby. You can almost read their thoughts when you mention your hobby, 'Oh! So you still stick Airfix kits together?'

Whoops! My last post has a typo I overlooked to correct. The word reflecting was spelt incorrectly in second paragraph. As I said before IPMS has to remain an all subject society. It has to accept that it's base is the enthusiast modeller of all genres along with the future challenges. The kids pocket money market has long gone and if my grandkids are anything to go by, computer games are their thing now, whereas in the old days of the 50s 60s and 70s plastic kits were the thing! At Telford and your Nationals the diversity of classes and sub sections within will remain much the same for the foreseeable future apart from the odd change here and there. We have to accept that some classes will be much more well supported than others that reflects the trends in the hobby within and outside of IPMS and in the market place generally

Rusty, , I could not agree with you more. I too have served on the UK committee way back wnen in the 70's, and also judge at Telford now. It is exactly the same over here as the number of classes at Telford is determined by supply and demand ref!effing the main subject interests in plastic modelling generally. All the best.

As IPMS is a society for all genres with a big leaning towards the aircraft modeller that reflects the main plastic modelling interest catered for by manufactureres. I build classic car models, but even at Telford the number of classes for car models is diminutive compared to the number and range of aircraft classes. A couple of years back the scratch build cars class was dropped due to low entry levels, so my models now have to compete against detailed kits. I will still partake though to support the competition generally. Sometimes I wish that there were a number of model car clubs here in the UK like you enjoy in the States. Apart from special interest groups within IPMS UK there is nothing else that I am aware of. Not to say that car modelling is not popular in the UK. Far from it judging by the frightfully expensive kits that Hiroboy and Grand Prix Models sell, not counting the plastic auto kits more generally available. IPMS has to be all things to all modellers unlike specialist modelling groups, and therein lies its strength and it's weakness,. It's strength is that it caters for al!. But it's weakness is its leanings toward certain subjects dictated by the main interests of modellers generally!

There are many local independent model clubs around, that include a number of IPMS members. So why are the others in th clubs not joining IPMS? Basically because they are happy how their local club is run and see no reason to change. I can remember something that almost turned out to be a PR disaster for IPMS UK quite a number of years ago. The National Committee at that time dictated that all IPMS local meetings should just consist of members only. They failed to acknowledge at the time that many members were using independent model clubs as a regular meeting g place within those clubs. On the reverse, IPMS branches were being used in the same way by non members as a meeting place.. It caused many branches at the time to declare themselves as independent clubs and carry on as before whilst many IPMS UK branches just simply ignored the directive altogether.

John Walker has just given in my opinion one of the most succinct views about percption of IPMS in general, members and non members attitudes, and how competition is viewed both from outside and inside this organisation. Dak's last post about modelles not joining IPMS because they are cheap and lazy is a bit strong. He is missing the point as there are many an excellent modeller out beyond IPMS who make models purely for enjoyment to their own style and not have to be hide bound by any competition rules. Also, there are people out there that cannot afford the latest big kit that is released. On my retirement pension you can count me amongst those folk, but I still remain a member since I joined back in 1974.

If you want to see a fantastic model made from the little Airfix kit, have a look at the one Jim Baumann has built. It looks like one of those exquisite miniatures that the late Derek Hunniset used to make.

They were originally done by a company named Kitmaster way back in the sixties before Airfix bought them out. I remember building The General from their range but Airfix never released it when they bought the moulds. There was also a South African Railways Beyer Garratt in the range, also never released by Airfix. The moulds were sold on again to a company in Wales named Dapol who sell all the Airfix released ones to date. I do not know if Dapol got the General and Beyer Garratt moulds along with all the other locos, but I suspect not as they were never released. All the old original Airfix lineside stuff like buildings etc were also sold on to Dapol and still available.

Driven in Cairo and Mombasa in Afrika, also Columbo and Kandy in Sri Lanka (ex Ceylon), similar to Pakistan for driving I should imagine. Quite an experience. No one seems to either know or give a damn what side of the road they use. The use of mopeds for family transport has to be seen to be believed. Dad Riding, Wife on Pillion, 2 kids on back pannier, another sat across fuel tank and a baby in a basket on the front. You should try the East West main commercial supply road through Kenya. The weighbridge guys take bribes to allow trucks through that are far too overladen. Result, the road has collapsed in many places making craters big enough for you to driver a car into up to the roof. It was easier to drive alongside the road in the rough in a 4x4. Not a road to drive on at night due to the craters and various opportunist carnivores about I hasten to add. LOL Been there, done that and got the Tee shirt as they say. Anyway, we are drifting away from the PR Problem, so maybe we had best get back on track before a moderator reminds us. Cheers

Thanks for the geography lesson Dak. Having driven in the US, Canada and all over Europe at different times, driving Mid West in sparsely populated Oklahoma is a different proposition to driving on our poor road congested isle. If you get to the UK, we have some marvellous museums, galleries, castles and stately homes to visit. You may get a bit frustrated with driving to them however!

You have made some good points Gil. Our geographical dispositions dictate to a greater extent the show format. Telford has developed over many years to what it is today. For many years the UK Nats as they were then ran for over 25 years in a very similar fashion to your own annual event. The competition still remains the core of the show as does yours. It is just that our show has developed slowly into today's format and the US has retained the format that works best for IPMS USA. Telford, because of how it developed naturally gives more opportunity to show models out of the competition, whereas the US Nats may be a bit more constricted for display space. Regarding winning or losing, a bit of philosophy. Your model will be no better or worse when you take it off the competition table to when you placed it on the table!

Ralph's comment to a certain extent may be passionate about how he feels. But has competition got to be the be all and end all for IPMS? Telford is an example of how competition and exhibition can go hand in hand without people feeling that they have to compete. Many Modellers are not bothered one jot about competition, yet the models they enjoy just exhibiting would do well in competition! There is room for both within IPMS. We have to ask ourselves if we are a modelling society promoting the hobby or a modelling competition society? Everyone was a novice to start with, and we should be reaching out to those people as well as more established hobbyists. I fear that IPMS is in danger of taking itself a bit too seriously at times.

Getting back to the PR problem this thread is about, global IPMS perception. We tend to think that just about everyone into plastic models knows about IPMS, and it is surprising how many do not! Many myths and misconceptions have arisen over the years. One is that many think we are an aircraft only society. Another is that the society is too full of nit picking rivet counting experts and nerds and perhaps feel a bit intimidated about making a membership enquiry at a!l. Maybe our passions run a bit high about rules and standards eff that we forget that there are many hobbyists out there who simply want to have a bit of fun out of the hobby whilst learning a bit more. Another problem is, how welcoming are we to someone new arriving at our local club nights. Do we make sure that they are welcomed, or remain in conversation with our little clique in the club blissfully ignoring someone who has just walked in and knows no one?

Interesting to see how much debate goes onto the IPMS USA forum about PR, judging and contest rules etc in different threads. Certainly do not see this amount of debate on the UK website! Maybe us Brits are a bit too laid back to bother about lengthy debates on our forum. It would certainly be a bit more live!y if there was. I do not think we are any less passionate about our modelling however. But maybe our psyche is just a bit different from our American friends.

How long has IPMS been going? After over 50 years there are still people out there who think that the society is just for aircraft modellers! So maybe the society does have a problem about how we are perceived! I have read the differing views on this thread, and passionate though they may be does not alter how IPMS is perceived by many outside the society, whether correct or not. So guys, let's not get into too much heated debate over one issue when there are much wider problems that the society has to address such as how the hobby is headed on a global scale in order to sustain it.